Is the Sony EX1 still a good camera?

David Knaggs · April 25th, 2017, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

My Z150 feels a lot like a 4K version of my EX1 except with a better viewfinder that can actually be used for shooting.

Hi Doug.
I'm so glad you said that. I was down at my local Videocraft store (Sony dealer) yesterday completing my "due diligence" on the Z150 and have decided to get it. I have an upcoming pet project that I was originally going to film with the EX1R, but feel it would be better served being shot in 4K. I was looking for the closest 4K camera to the EX1R and the Z150 ticks nearly all of the boxes for me (the lens isn't quite as good, but that won't be a problem for me). The Z150 is fantastic "bang for the buck" and the perfect camera for me to dip my toe into 4K shooting and post. The EX1R still gives great images after 7 years and I'll continue to use that for my regular corporate work.

But it was actually your Florida Wildlife footage that impressed me so much and opened my eyes to what this camera can do. So thanks! (And I'll get your tutorials once I pick up the camera.)

Doug Jensen · April 25th, 2017, 08:06 PM

Hi David, thanks for the compliment. I'm glad you found my footage helpful and I hope you like the camera as much as I do.

Craig Seeman · April 26th, 2017, 09:09 AM

Hi Doug,

Comparing the Z150 to the EX1 regarding shallow depth of field, Z150 1" sensor but aperture goes from f2.8 to f4 compared to f1.9 on the EX1 with 1/2" sensor. Have you done a comparison? I do understand why the lenses are different but wonder what the impact is.

Do you have any evaluation on the differences in dynamic range between the two? The 150 seems to have issues in wide dynamic ranges situations (mid day for example) compared to the EX1 but that's just speculation on my part.

Also I can't find anything specific to graphs on the default Picture Profiles for the Z150 whereas I find charts and explanations on the EX1.

Doug Jensen · April 29th, 2017, 02:36 PM

Hi Craig,

No, I haven't had a chance to compare the EX1 and Z150 head to head. It'd be interesting to do, but I haven't had the time. I think your implication that the advantage of the bigger sensor size of the Z150 might be negated by the slower speed of lens is probably accurate.

The Z150 has a very narrow dynamic range and that is the weakest part of the camera. Is it worse than the EX1? I honestly can't say because I haven't even turned on my EX1 for at least three years. I've been so spoiled by shooting mostly S-LOG, RAW, and Hypergamma 8 for the last four years that ANY camera without those features is going to seem limited in comparison. The EX1 didn't have great dynamic range, but I wouldn't want to say if the Z150 is better or worse unless I set them up side by side to check. Both cameras are capable for producing nice images if you nail the exposure and work within their limitations but there isn't a lot of wiggle room. But all things considered, I'd much rather shoot with the Z150 than the EX1. The OLED viewfinder, 4K codec, 120 fps in HD, 4:2:2 10-bit in HD, SD card media, HDMI output, etc. are reasons enough to choose it over the EX1.

As for understanding the built-in profiles of the Z150? What difference does it make? None of them are very good and I've created my own that I much prefer.

Craig Seeman · April 30th, 2017, 08:18 AM

Thanks Doug,

Nailing the exposure, that's the challenge of course, especially in run and gun. I wonder if you ever trust the auto settings?

Regarding the Picture Profiles, I'm trying to find concrete info on what the "names" technically represent without doing a lot of testing. For example what are the gamma curves of "Cinematone 1, 2, etc) are and what how do they impact the color science. Of course I can setup charts or find a "real world" target environment (makes more sense with model in outdoor scene with sky I'd think) but I'd think someone has already done that and looked at outputs on a scope. I've seen that info for the EX1 posted but the Z150 settings are entirely different and I've seen nothing like the EX1 examples for the Z150.

Andy Wilkinson · April 30th, 2017, 08:33 AM

Craig,

Alister Chapman has some excellent technical info relating to some of what you are asking on his XDCAM User website and Blog - Sony nomenclature etc. Or maybe in one of his online video tutorials?

It's been a while since I read/saw it - but I'm pretty sure it's there...somewhere! Might be worthwhile digging around in that direction.

Craig Seeman · April 30th, 2017, 09:06 PM

I remember seeing that on Chapman's site relative the EX1. He posted on his blog and did a video as well. Didn't see anything like that on the Z150 though. Perhaps I overlooked it.

Doug Jensen · May 1st, 2017, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

I wonder if you ever trust the auto settings?

Never. It's not just that the camera will rarely choose the exposure I want, there is also the constant problem of exposure fluctuation while running on automatic that is an even bigger problem. Despite the narrow dynamic range it isn't that hard to get a good exposure quickly and accurately using nothing more than zebras. In fact, if someone isn't used to shooting to LOG 90% of the time, as I do, the limited dynamic range of the Z150 might almost seem normal. LOG spoils you.

Craig Seeman · May 1st, 2017, 10:42 AM

Normally, with human dominant subjects, I set zebra to 70% for skin peaking and adjust exposure from there depending on context.

Recently I was in a situation where I was shooting in mid day soon during a protest with scores of white placards... like being surrounded by bounce cards reflecting the sun. The conditions across people's faces went from over exposure to deep shadow depending on where they were standing. And I had to keep changing subjects with virtually no time to adjust exposure. On top of that sometimes the signs themselves (images or text on white backgrounds) were the subject.

I was thinking maybe I should create a PP for those situations, lifting the blacks (level or gamma?) in PP and then bringing them down in post as needed.

This brought me to the point where I really think I need to understand (see) the gamma curves both general and black. Alas I could use a test chart (and that's no substitute for "real world") and then find some way to test with people in a non critical situation.

Having owned an EX1 and seeing the Z150 PPs are different, I having a tough time trying to understand the Z150 PP settings. I'm wondering if their origins are from the NX series and I should be hunting for that.

April 25th, 2017, 08:06 PM	#32
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,417	Re: Is the Sony EX1 still a good camera? Hi David, thanks for the compliment. I'm glad you found my footage helpful and I hope you like the camera as much as I do. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

April 26th, 2017, 09:09 AM	#33
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: Is the Sony EX1 still a good camera? Hi Doug, Comparing the Z150 to the EX1 regarding shallow depth of field, Z150 1" sensor but aperture goes from f2.8 to f4 compared to f1.9 on the EX1 with 1/2" sensor. Have you done a comparison? I do understand why the lenses are different but wonder what the impact is. Do you have any evaluation on the differences in dynamic range between the two? The 150 seems to have issues in wide dynamic ranges situations (mid day for example) compared to the EX1 but that's just speculation on my part. Also I can't find anything specific to graphs on the default Picture Profiles for the Z150 whereas I find charts and explanations on the EX1.

April 29th, 2017, 02:36 PM	#34
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,417	Re: Is the Sony EX1 still a good camera? Hi Craig, No, I haven't had a chance to compare the EX1 and Z150 head to head. It'd be interesting to do, but I haven't had the time. I think your implication that the advantage of the bigger sensor size of the Z150 might be negated by the slower speed of lens is probably accurate. The Z150 has a very narrow dynamic range and that is the weakest part of the camera. Is it worse than the EX1? I honestly can't say because I haven't even turned on my EX1 for at least three years. I've been so spoiled by shooting mostly S-LOG, RAW, and Hypergamma 8 for the last four years that ANY camera without those features is going to seem limited in comparison. The EX1 didn't have great dynamic range, but I wouldn't want to say if the Z150 is better or worse unless I set them up side by side to check. Both cameras are capable for producing nice images if you nail the exposure and work within their limitations but there isn't a lot of wiggle room. But all things considered, I'd much rather shoot with the Z150 than the EX1. The OLED viewfinder, 4K codec, 120 fps in HD, 4:2:2 10-bit in HD, SD card media, HDMI output, etc. are reasons enough to choose it over the EX1. As for understanding the built-in profiles of the Z150? What difference does it make? None of them are very good and I've created my own that I much prefer. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

April 30th, 2017, 08:18 AM	#35
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: Is the Sony EX1 still a good camera? Thanks Doug, Nailing the exposure, that's the challenge of course, especially in run and gun. I wonder if you ever trust the auto settings? Regarding the Picture Profiles, I'm trying to find concrete info on what the "names" technically represent without doing a lot of testing. For example what are the gamma curves of "Cinematone 1, 2, etc) are and what how do they impact the color science. Of course I can setup charts or find a "real world" target environment (makes more sense with model in outdoor scene with sky I'd think) but I'd think someone has already done that and looked at outputs on a scope. I've seen that info for the EX1 posted but the Z150 settings are entirely different and I've seen nothing like the EX1 examples for the Z150.

April 30th, 2017, 08:33 AM	#36
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Re: Is the Sony EX1 still a good camera? Craig, Alister Chapman has some excellent technical info relating to some of what you are asking on his XDCAM User website and Blog - Sony nomenclature etc. Or maybe in one of his online video tutorials? It's been a while since I read/saw it - but I'm pretty sure it's there...somewhere! Might be worthwhile digging around in that direction. __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

April 30th, 2017, 09:06 PM	#37
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: Is the Sony EX1 still a good camera? I remember seeing that on Chapman's site relative the EX1. He posted on his blog and did a video as well. Didn't see anything like that on the Z150 though. Perhaps I overlooked it.

May 1st, 2017, 10:42 AM	#39
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: Is the Sony EX1 still a good camera? Normally, with human dominant subjects, I set zebra to 70% for skin peaking and adjust exposure from there depending on context. Recently I was in a situation where I was shooting in mid day soon during a protest with scores of white placards... like being surrounded by bounce cards reflecting the sun. The conditions across people's faces went from over exposure to deep shadow depending on where they were standing. And I had to keep changing subjects with virtually no time to adjust exposure. On top of that sometimes the signs themselves (images or text on white backgrounds) were the subject. I was thinking maybe I should create a PP for those situations, lifting the blacks (level or gamma?) in PP and then bringing them down in post as needed. This brought me to the point where I really think I need to understand (see) the gamma curves both general and black. Alas I could use a test chart (and that's no substitute for "real world") and then find some way to test with people in a non critical situation. Having owned an EX1 and seeing the Z150 PPs are different, I having a tough time trying to understand the Z150 PP settings. I'm wondering if their origins are from the NX series and I should be hunting for that.