Z190?
 

Hi all,
Has anyone upgraded to the Z190 yet?
Would love to see low light comparisons to the 160/180.

Re: Z190?
 

Nobody has one. The Z190 is still a month or two away from shipping.

Re: Z190?
 

so, while we're talking about 'new' cameras...

my ex1 is as good as ever, but getting up in the hours dept. and, as i'm getting older, feeling rather heavy when handheld.

i was thinking maybe z80 or 90? not too concerned about 4k.

anyone any experience with comparison?

Re: Z190?
 

I've just purchased the Z90 and these were my reasons over the NX80

SDI out
XAVC-L 10bit: 4:2:2

The Z90 is fantastic and I highly recommend this, I've has so many cameras over the years and at the peak was my Sony PMW500, then followed all the DSLR, Mirrorless mob, all this time I dreamed of a small Camcorder with these specs in a small unit and here it is.

I just want to add, I don't shoot 4K although all my current cameras can, good HD for now is what I need.

Re: Z190?
 

If you're coming from an EX1 and you really appreciate all the XDCAM features and functions it provides, I would recommend waiting for the Z190 or maybe a Z280 if you can justify the extra cost. I love my Z90 and it is a great little camera, but the Z190 beats it hands down in every way you want to compare them except size.

Also, I will add, that in my opinion it is a mistake to not to be shooting most things in 4K today whether you edit and deliver in 4K or not. To act as if 4K is not even on one's radar is being very short sighted.

Re: Z190?
 

Yes the Z190 with that 25x lens looks great along with other features, I would have gone this myself however at 6K in Aussie dollars v 4K for the z90 I couldn't justify this at this time.

Re: Z190?
 

Just want to add, you have to purchase a battery charger separately (not included in the box) and of course batteries. As I have now moved back to Sony the setup cost again is a contributing factor.

Re: Z190?
 

most certainly the $4k vs $6k is a factor. and i haven't need a x25 lens for many years (though it would be nice to have).

i would probably shoot my talking heads in 4k so that i could easily reframe on the timeline, but since i've never been asked for 4k, nor wish to invest personally in the hardware that would give me what i get in hd in realtime, i'm somewhat loathed to go down that path...

and finally, i loved this -

Re: Z190?
 

The Z190 is very much on my radar but im very concerned about those three 1/3 sensors and their density and dim output.

I haven seen very much Z280 yet but from the small amount that I have seen, it's made me cringe. So far, I have only seen Z280 footage that shows massive amounts of noise reductuin even at 0db. If you look closely at moving edges, you see the classic temporal "edge tearing" problems and "spekled edges" too. The noise reduction is so high that it scrubs fine detail pretty agressively. I'm a massive Sony zombie fanboy but even I have to admit that I'm a bit worried about the Z280. Yes, I need to see more but already compared to the Z90, I can see the Z90's images have much finer detail and less noise reduction at just about every db. ( no comparison in ergonomics and usability)

I dont know how this will affect the Z190 with even smaller sensors. Again, I'm judging this all on a small amount of 4k samples on YouTube. I really want to be wrong about this as the ergonomics of these two new cameras are PERFECT for me. However, I my opinion, I cant choose a camera, no matter how good its usability is if it's final image quality is not worth it.

The jury is still out and Im not judging either of these cameras right now untill I see allot more material from them. For all of you looking at the 4k image quality, look closely for high amounts of noise reduction processing. Look at detail softening, edge shearing and speckling arround moving edges im particular. Look for the "water color" effect.

Lets all hope that everything is OK and that I'm completely wrong. I absolutely WANT to be wrong on this.

Re: Z190?
 

My mistake, looking closer at the retailers webpage it does say, expected late August.
If the Z190 has better low light than my 160, I am there.
I used to think the 160 was a pretty solid performer in the dark but compared it the other night to the GH5S on a static scene and as expected it was a massive difference.
If sensor tech has come that far in the last four years Im hoping for the Z190 to be amazing.

Re: Z190?
 

I'll be surprised if we see actually see the Z190 before September. But the wait will be rewarded.

Re: Z190?
 

Yeah, that Panasonic GH5-S uses a pretty damn cutting edge Sony IMX299 EXMOR BSI sensor. Those photosites are larger than 4+ microns. Its got a really clean 10bit VLog and dual ISO/0db mapping....recording to a 400mbps all-intra internal codec and a read-out clocked faster than a Sony FS7....no real rolling shutter. Scary!

Its funny how Sony Semiconductor is really not affraid to sell their best pattented sensors to other companies that compete with Sony Imaging Company.

And now BlackMagic is buying that IMX299 for their pocket 4k camera that records 12bit raw...for $1300!!!

Things are getting crazy and Sony Semiconductor is causing it. They just want to sell as many sensors as they can and they dont care anymore if Sony Imaging gets screwed because of it. Lol.

Re: Z190?
 

I hope you're not suggesting that the GH5 or BM pocket camera are valid substitutes for the Z190? Those are totally different cameras intended to be used for totally different purposes. It's like telling us all about a great pair of pliers when what I really need is a screwdriver. Sony builds cameras for people who have work to get done, not pixel peepers.

Re: Z190?
 

well put doug...

Re: Z190?
 

Absolutely right. I am not suggesting these cameras can replace each other as tools. I own the GH5 and NX80 myself and use my NX80 for event work, live webcasting and run and gun work...especially when I dont want "attention". My GH5 is for my trips to YellowStone, Yosimite and Glacier National Park and higher quality 10bit scenic landscapes and wildlife. (My lenses span 16mm wide to 800mm tele in 35mm equililant) Places I dont want to lug my FS7 to on hikes.

Yes,...two cameras that are on the oposite ends of the camera/camcorder industry spectrum. As you know Doug, I have my hands and feet in ALL the styles of shooting tools...

ENG - EX1, Z150, X70 and NX80
Cine S35 - FS7 and FS700R
Hybrid - GH5 and A7S-II

I appreciate all of them and they cant replace each other as tools.

CT

Re: Z190?
 

Y'know, on the issue of "pixel peeping", I got into a debate with one of my Arri fan-boy coworkers last year. He was VERRY persistent that Arri 2.7k is all that any camera ever needs. In fact, he tried to argue with me that 4k is crap and something that only "pixel peepers" care about. Its not necessary and standard 1080 is all he will ever deliver in and that 4k "hurts his eyes". He is so anti-pixel peeping that he believes that he will go to his grave never working in 4k.

Me?....sure, I do love pixel peeping on wildlife and landscapes. If I can see an ant's antennas flickering when it's going up the side of a detailed tree trunk,...yeah that kind of stuff makes me say "wow".

Everybody is different and not everybody is as impressed with resolving power as I am.

That's cool. I get it.

Re: Z190?
 

i'm not sure that age hasn't got some part to play in this...

at 70, after a lifetime in tv and video i too am left less that impressed by 4k - i have seen breathtaking hd that's been shot with the best possible equipment and edited without unnecessary grading (and here i'm referring to hdr, which to my eyes looks hilarious), that looks incredibly lifelike (take any modern-day attenboruogh extravaganza)', whereas, a lot of the 4k stuff i've seen looks 'brittle', oversharpened, and plastic.
true, i haven't seen 4k straight out of the camera on a proper 4k monitor, but i've carefully (albeit it subjectively) assessed what i've seen in both showrooms and friends/associates homes and am disappointed. perhaps my eyes aren't what they used to be, perhaps i don't ever feel the need to pixel peek, perhaps i'm just too tired of 'hype' to make me buy more stuff (and nonsense).

Re: Z190?
 

What is interesting on my side of video production is: clients don't want 4K due to editing turn around delays cause by computers not handling 4K and storage cost with 4K. All of my work now goes to social media, Facebook etc... and has its roots firmly implanted in mobile devices. I still shoot for DVD distribution in HD (which is converted to SD) although it's days are in sight of finishing.

All my live gigs are shot either in SD (YES) or HD and converted to SD.

For my line of work currently, mobile devices are were my clients want video directed to so good HD is great from me.

Re: Z190?
 

The more resolution for acquisition the better. Period. It doesn't matter what the final deliverable will be because starting with a higher resolution "negative" is always going to allow more options in post and ultimately better quality final output. When I hear people say they don't care about 4K; they can't see the difference; clients don't need it, etc. it all sounds like the same silly stuff people said about HD a few years ago. A lot of those people stuck with SD too long and fell behind and never caught up again. If you think you don't need 4K today (at least some of the time) you are probably working at very low tier of production (I don't mean that as an insult) or else simply not appreciating the many advantages 4K acquisition provides to the business side of the equation.

If I could shoot 8K, 10K, or 12K right now with the same ease that I can shoot 4K and with the same affordable cameras, I'd be doing it. Higher resolution is always better. Just ask any professional still photographer if they are still shooting on a DSLR that has less than 6MP. 6MP is enough to satisfy 90% of print requirement except for posters. I've had photos published in books that look great and were shot with my old Nikon D1H which was less than 3MP. So why did Nikon announce new mirrorless cameras this week that can do 45MP? Who needs that? Well, I've never heard a serious professional photographer say that they didn't need more resolution because clients didn't ask for it. Clients should not drive your equipment decisions anyway, any more than you would tell an artist which brushes or paints he needs or s sculptor what chisels he should buy.

BTW with cameras like the Z190 and Z280 you can record 4K and HD simultaneously.

Re: Z190?
 

You are a member of the 4k "pixel peeper" club too...just like me!! I welcome everybody to join!

Seriously, I have been accused of loving detail too much. It "wows" me, it opens my eyes bigger and makes me "hunt" or explore for tiny subltle things in an image. Like, texture in a rock formation, texture in fabric or animal fur...all kinds of subtle things like that. Its just more "rewarding" to see landscapes and beauty shots in 4k and 6k.

Yeah.....there are plenty of people that say; "Oh God....why do you pay attention THAT much? Just take a quick, casual look and move on. There is no need to analyze it that much"

I dunno,...its just me, I guess.

Re: Z190?
 

I don't think I'm a pixel peeper because I don't monitor in 4K and the only thing I edit and deliver in 4K is stock footage. And I'm not even going to stand up and say there is a gigantic difference between viewing 4K television and HD. But I stand by my advice that all video professionals should have 4K capability today even if they don't choose to shoot in 4K all of the time. Again, I would compare our needs to a photographer who doesn't always print everything at billboard size but who still wants to shoot at the highest resolution that is conveniently available.