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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old June 21st, 2007, 05:43 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham View Post
Surely putting the knee saturation up that high on an already saturated scene file will make the highlights look very artificial and 'plasticky'?
Well, this could happen too when using the LBEACH scene file but my take on this is that since using the F350's, I always felt that the default KNEE Saturation settings should have been 100, not zero. I set mine to 140 (out of a max value of 200) and that really solved a lot of issues I was having on high spots. Try it, but your mileage may vary.

Thierry.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 05:58 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Thierry Humeau View Post
Well, this could happen too when using the LBEACH scene file but my take on this is that since using the F350's, I always felt that the default KNEE Saturation settings should have been 100, not zero. ...
Thierry.
Actually, one thing that conforts me in the point I made above is that if you look at the F330/F350 user manuals page 119, description of Paint Menu page #4, it shows a default value for the KNEE Saturation of 0 with a -99 to +99 range. That seem like a logical setting and I suspect the KNEE Sat factory settings for the camera is totally off. All paint settings default values in the camera allow for either and increase of reduction. The KNEE is the only one with no possible reduction from the default value. This is the only error I have found in the menus descriptions.

Now, a quick test you can try to corroborate this..

Just light a plain color wall (deeper the color the better) with 2 or 3 spot lights. If you tried to get an overall correct exposure on the wall, your spot lights will quickly show as white hot spots. Turn the KNEE Sat up and you will see smooth color spots.

I have setup a bunch of new 350s and out of the box, I cranked the KNEE Sat to 120. So far no one has complained about it.

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Old June 21st, 2007, 10:03 PM   #18
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Greg. I still bet $10 that we will not see the XDCAM EX in stores before 2008. Are you in? I hope to be proofed wrong, but I'm dealing with SONY for 20 Years now.
I know you weren't trying to start anything, Peter. It just seems to have evolved as two tapeless formats, each of which have their loyal fans. And that always leads to debates, which then turn to heated discussions, then flame wars. At DVINFO, we try to extinguish the flame while it's just a tiny spark.

As to the $10, it would be too much like insider trading on my part. So I'll politely decline that bet. ;-)

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Old June 21st, 2007, 10:41 PM   #19
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Surely putting the knee saturation up that high on an already saturated scene file will make the highlights look very artificial and 'plasticky'?
It's just restoring the chroma to the compressed part of the signal to keep it from looking washed out. I guess it would look artificial if you cranked it too far, much like many of the other paint functions.

I know you must have seen this document.

http://www.sonybiz.net/res/attachmen...6605183219.pdf

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Old June 22nd, 2007, 02:30 AM   #20
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The info I got from the Sony Japan guy at NAB was the EX will do 1p to 60p and everything in between. No ramp capability though.
Not certain if it'll record in XDCAM HQ or not, at NAB time that seemed to be subject to change.
The camera that was on show at NAB had already been used to record footage, it was no cardboard mockup. I believe several beta units have been in the field for sometime.
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 05:27 AM   #21
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Quote by Greg Boston:

I know you weren't trying to start anything, Peter. It just seems to have evolved as two tapeless formats, each of which have their loyal fans. And that always leads to debates, which then turn to heated discussions, then flame wars. At DVINFO, we try to extinguish the flame while it's just a tiny spark.

As to the $10, it would be too much like insider trading on my part. So I'll politely decline that bet. ;-)

***************

Fair enough, I'll drink a beer or two on you when the time is right.
Believe me, if this little camera is performing as promised, I'll be the first to buy one here in Switzerland.

In 2008 ;-)

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Old June 22nd, 2007, 10:48 AM   #22
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The HVX and the F330. Both are great cameras. But I had occasions were the F330 couldn't deliver and the HVX could. (Fast movements, on stage pyroeffects etc.)
What problems have you had with fast movements and have you told this to Sony? No-one else is reporting issues with this. We've been filming aircraft flying at 300 mph with XDCam issue and haven't seen any problems.

I know you're not trying to start a flame war but I'm a bit worried that you may have given the casual viewer the idea that XDCam HD has some of the problems that have been (mostly wrongly) associated with HDV.
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 11:28 AM   #23
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I shot an on-stage pyro effect with the 330. An actor came down a stair. The stage is very dark. Suddenly a white pyro flash goes off. It took the MPEG Coded about 12 frames to recover from that shock. The picture is all blocky for half a second.

In 99.9% of all shot's it's not a problem. But on that particular occasion, the MPEG codec was just not able to handle the incoming signal fast enough.

Peter
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 11:35 AM   #24
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Thanks for that clarification, that is an extreme test of a codec. You might like to pass it on to Sony if you haven't already.
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 11:45 AM   #25
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The first project I shot with 350s was a concert with strobes going off the entire time. It was even at 25mbs, because that's all FCP could handle at the time.

Only later did I realize that those strobes going off constantly were a codec nightmare. Upon close inspection of the frames, you can indeed tell that the codec was compromised a little from it, but I never saw it until I went looking for it.

In the future, I'd never shoot something like that at 25 again...but I can't say it ruined my day or anything.
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Old June 23rd, 2007, 03:00 AM   #26
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It's just restoring the chroma to the compressed part of the signal to keep it from looking washed out. I guess it would look artificial if you cranked it too far, much like many of the other paint functions.
Knee saturation is a setting that you need to be very careful with. It is not a setting that you can set-and-forget, and needs to be adjusted according to the scene in hand. You can get some strange results otherwise depending on the situation (for example clouds can take on a blue hue when they should be white).

In general Sony's camera Tru-Eye processing should hold such details more naturally by itself while knee saturation is something that should be used on a shot by shot basis, and then judiciously. Just my 2c.

Simon
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