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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
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Old June 19th, 2007, 11:34 PM   #1
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Sony New XDCAM EX

Just wondering if anyone has any more information about this new camera coming out? Was looking for Color spacing info, will the camera record in SD, what Mbps in HD, Firewire, weight, price, SDI? Im debating whether or not to buy the Panasonic HVX200 with its 4:2:2: and SD HD formats or just wait and get this Sony. Any info would be appreciated. Tim
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Old June 19th, 2007, 11:46 PM   #2
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There's a lot of information/speculation in this thread. The camera is for sure 4:2:0 at 35 Mbps VBR (with 4:2:2 over HD-SDI) and around $8,000 US. It's a bit bigger than a Z1 so probably around 5 pounds and I would guess it probably has firewire. If you read through here, Greg Boston says it looks like the camera won't do SD, though nothing's official until Sony releases more details at IBC in July.
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Old June 19th, 2007, 11:56 PM   #3
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though nothing's official until Sony releases more details at IBC in July.
The final specs are due to be out around mid July. IBC is in September.

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Old June 20th, 2007, 12:48 AM   #4
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The final specs are due to be out around mid July. IBC is in September.

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Haha whoops, that makes more sense. Thanks, Greg.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 06:00 AM   #5
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Why would someone buy this opposed to the HVX200 with all the multiple frame rates, 4:2:2 color sampling (with out going through SDI), 100 Mbps recording in DVCProHD, and the ability to record in SD on tape and to P2. This Panasonic sounds like it offers so much more. And is cheaper.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 06:06 AM   #6
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Why would someone buy this opposed to the HVX200
Cheaper, faster, more widely-available and higher capacity flash media that doesn't use an obsolete interface, for one.

1/2" chips and a manual lens, for two more.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 09:37 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Tim Kuhlman View Post
Why would someone buy this opposed to the HVX200 with all the multiple frame rates, 4:2:2 color sampling (with out going through SDI), 100 Mbps recording in DVCProHD, and the ability to record in SD on tape and to P2. This Panasonic sounds like it offers so much more. And is cheaper.
1. at least 3x the amount of recording per GB of storage.

2. Cheaper storage.

3. The EX does allow variable framerates such as 24p, 25p, 30p 50p and 60p. It isn't as many but most people are not shooting at 22fps anyways.

4. 100 Mbps is actaully inferior because it is a intraframe frame format. Yes I know Intraframe means better frames for each frame but that comes at a cost. DVCPROHD is forced to use less pixels in order to cram a decent level of quality per frame. Each frame must use the exact same number of bits so some frames may not hav enough bits while some frames may be totally wasting bits. 720p from the HVX200 will give you 960x720 pixels while XDCAMHD at 720p will give you true 1280x720.

5. The HVX200 is a 1/3" chip camera where each chip is 960x540 pixels that use pixel shift to try and build back some of the detail. The EX camera uses 1/2" chips that will use either 1440x1080 pixels or 1920x1080 pixels. The EX camera will not only give you better low light due to the larger chips but it will not suffer any restrictions on resolving detail from a tiny 1/3" chip and it will have a lot more natural detail then the HVX200.

6. On the HVX200 a 16GB card shooting 1080 has to be changed every 16 minutes. On the EX it only has to be changed about every 45 minutes give or take a few minutes.

7. HD-SDI output (I'm pretty sure on this) for the EX while the HVX200 only has component output. (I do need to confirm this)

8. While I do love 4:2:2 color since I am a compositor, when shooting progressive footage 4:2:0 is actually not that much different. 4:2:0 keying will be very clean and accurate.

9. Discovery HD and maybe some other HDTV channels will not use HVX200 footage but they will use XDCAMHD footage. We do not yet know how well the footage from the EX will be but chances are it is going to be very close to the big cameras due to the 1/2" chips which should be very much like the 1/2" chips in the larger XDCAMHD cameras.

10. XDCAMHD has three recording modes. 18mbit, 25mbit and 35mbit. The lower modes of course give you even more record time and will look equally as good as long as the scene isn't much more complex. For example if you are shooting a seminar or something boring from a tripod then the 18mbit mode should be more then enough to keep the exact same level of quality but almost double the amount of recoding time you can get with two 16GB cards. You could get at least 2:30 of record time by doing this. The HVX200 cannot do this. The only way you can get more time from the P2 cards is to shoot 720p 24p which of course you can no longer compare to 1080p 60i or 720p 60p if thats what you need.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 10:42 AM   #8
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Hi Thomas

Let's not forget that XDCAM HD can be edited on AVID Liquid like ... ehm liquid.

I still love my HVX200 though. I compared some material I shot with an PDW-F330. My vote goes definitely to the HVX. But the XDCAM EX looks very promising. I think in a year from now, I'll have both of them :-)

And finally let's not forget. The HVX is here, you can use it. The XDCAM EX will probalbly be shown at IBC and you may be able to buy one Q1/2008. Not earlier! Until then I will make a lot of beautiful jobs an my Panny. But it's cool to be able to actually see both worlds. It keeps my in balance, y'know.

Peter
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Old June 20th, 2007, 06:27 PM   #9
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Hi Thomas


I still love my HVX200 though. I compared some material I shot with an PDW-F330. My vote goes definitely to the HVX.

Peter
We all have personal preferences but there is really no comparison to footage from an HVX-200 and a 330. I had a chance to use a 500 and was equally unimpressed.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 06:45 PM   #10
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The XDCAM EX will probalbly be shown at IBC and you may be able to buy one Q1/2008. Not earlier!
Ummm, no. The XDCAM EX was shown at NAB and is slated to ship in late October.

Let's not get into a platform war here. Otherwise the thread will be locked and/or removed. It's nice to have information on the specs of the tools we use, but each individual must weigh their own needs with respect to features, price, ergonomics, etc.

Spend your passion on creating, not debating.

regards,

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Old June 20th, 2007, 09:13 PM   #11
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Both the F330 and F350 out of the box look very, very dull. You need to try some of the setup files available on Sony's XDCAM web site (www.sony.com/xdcam). For exemple, try the LBEACH scene file and you will see you camera come to life.

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Old June 20th, 2007, 09:17 PM   #12
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Also, I forgot to mention. On any of these setup files including Sony's base settings, crank the Knee Saturation setting to 140, you highlights areas will be much smoother. For some reason, the default setting is 0 where the range goes from 0 to 200. I suspect the default knee should have been 100 on those cameras and I am still at odds with some engineers at Sony in regard to that issue.

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Old June 21st, 2007, 03:27 AM   #13
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Surely putting the knee saturation up that high on an already saturated scene file will make the highlights look very artificial and 'plasticky'?
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Old June 21st, 2007, 04:41 AM   #14
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O.K. guys look

I don't want to start a format war here. Please don't think that of me.

As I said, I use both. The HVX and the F330. Both are great cameras. But I had occasions were the F330 couldn't deliver and the HVX could. (Fast movements, on stage pyroeffects etc.)

I will have a very close look when the EX comes out, because it seems like a really cool camera. I am not the guy that says the HVX is the light at the end of the tunnel. It's just another tool that guides me through the tunnel. The same goes for the F330 by the way.

I did beautiful shots on both cameras. In my personal opinion the HVX just performs a little bit better, because of the Intra Frame only coded. I know, better glass, filter, tweaking etc. also helps a great deal on the F330.

Like I said. Having both cameras, it helps me keep the balance and an hopefully objective view on those topics. Sorry, if I steptoed anybody.

So please everyone, calm down. It's just my humble opinion. O.K.?

P.S. Greg. I still bet $10 that we will not see the XDCAM EX in stores before 2008. Are you in? I hope to be proofed wrong, but I'm dealing with SONY for 20 Years now.


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Old June 21st, 2007, 05:50 AM   #15
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Although the EX does 60p does it not? im sure that will help in competition with HVX
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