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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
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Old July 20th, 2007, 08:27 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Snoeckx View Post
Hi Robert,

Go to this page: http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...am_index.shtml

And click on the XDCAM EX logo on the left under the picture.
Hi Ivan,

i tried but same error ... :(
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Old July 20th, 2007, 09:35 AM   #17
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About the only new info in that entire video is that the camera can do over cranking and under cranking. This was one of the few things Panasonic users said the HVX200 would still have an advantage on. They didn't however say how it would work and if it is only really limited to 720p at 24p like the HVX200 by using the 60p frames as 24p. If SONY is actually reclocking the chips (which can be done with CMOS) to have slow motion with 1080 and any destination framerate then that is pretty amazing. Hopefully it isn't like the lame slow motion feature on the V1 where it does true slow motion but at a very low resolution. Now that I think about the video a little bit more I'm not sure how they are going to do it. The video clearly states as do any of the specs that have been out already that 720p mode can only record 50p and 60p. There is no mention of 24p for 720p. 24p seems to only be for 1080. In a way that kind of makes sense. 720p 50p and 60p are different then 1080i 50i and 60i and have two different markets and while one can be converted to the other it is sometimes best to start with the desired format. For 24p shooting however if you had a choice between 1080p 24p and 720p 24p who would ever choose 720p 24p? Even if you wanted 720p 24p in the end it would be best to still shoot 1080p 24p and then down convert. Anyway if the camera doesn't record 720p 24p then how are they doing slow motion in camera? They either reclock the chips or do the low resolution method. I doubt they would brag about the feature if it was the low rez version because nobody would ever use it. We will have to wait to see more info on this feature.

4:2:0 at true progressive framerates is very good so the 4:2:2 isn't as big of a deal as some would like to think although it still would have been great to have 4:2:2. Having 4:2:2 would have pretty much been the final nail in the HVX200 coffin, not that the HVX200 is bad in any way. For me the only time I would really want 4:2:2 will be when I am hooked up via HD-SDI in my bluescreen studio so it doesn't really matter to me either way. For me having 4:2:2 in camera would have been a really sweet bonus but it is not a deal breaker in any way at all.
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Old July 20th, 2007, 11:30 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Thomas Smet View Post
For me the only time I would really want 4:2:2 will be when I am hooked up via HD-SDI in my bluescreen studio so it doesn't really matter to me either way. For me having 4:2:2 in camera would have been a really sweet bonus but it is not a deal breaker in any way at all.
If you're hooked up direct to the camera head via HDSDI, on any of the current camera offerings, you're getting 4:2:2.

The over/under crank works exactly like it does on the big brother F350. They alter the time of recording a single frame and then play it back at the desired frame rate. When you undercrank a lot, the live playback in the vf looks blurry and stuttered. But when you play it back at full speed, it looks beautiful. I've got some stuff I shot in the car at normal freeway speed at 12fps. Played back at 30fps, it looks like we're at Daytona. The resolution is full when you undercrank, and drops to half vertical when you overcrank. But when you playback the overcrank, it doesn't look like you're missing anything. I demo'd some overcrank stuff in my class at NAB of a golf ball being struck. You can see every nick and scratch on the golf club, and every scuff mark on the ball. It's a lot like shooting 60i and de-interlacing in post, only the hardware does a much better job of reconstructing the full frame, and does it in real time.

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Old July 20th, 2007, 04:56 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Tom Vaughan View Post
The video said that the XDCAM EX has 3 1/2" sensors. It did not say 3 CCDs. Sony has not described the sensors yet (although they made reference to the sensors having some revolutionary new technology in a previous video)
Checked back over it. Sorry about that. Your correct.
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Old July 20th, 2007, 07:20 PM   #20
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greg,


forgive me if i'm wrong, but, i thought the EX was capable of recording at 720 60p, like the jvc 250. i believe the reason for the halfing of the resolution in the 350 was because it only recorded in 23.98p and 29.97p in 1080 not in 60p like the ex and the jvc 250 to get its varible frame rates



*When capturing at 31-60 fps (in 23.98P/29.97P mode)/26-50 fps (in
25P mode), the camcorders provide lower vertical resolution than in normal
capturing mode.


rand
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Old July 20th, 2007, 07:45 PM   #21
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i believe the reason for the halfing of the resolution in the 350 was because it only recorded in 23.98p and 29.97p in 1080 not in 60p like the ex and the jvc 250 to get its varible frame rates
It halves the vertical resolution above 30fps in order to keep up. The internals can't process a full frame at that speed, so it essentially captures odd lines, then even lines every 1/60 (@60p overcrank setting), and then plays them back at the rate of 30 or 24 frames a second depending on the normal speed you have chosen in the menu.

It's a bit difficult to explain when typing it out, but that's the basics of it.

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Old July 20th, 2007, 08:24 PM   #22
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greg

thanks for clearing that up for me


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Old July 21st, 2007, 03:39 PM   #23
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Since they are mentioning in the promo the full 1920x1080 resolution of the HD422 chips, those of the EX will have less - does anyone know if it's 1440x1080, or even less?
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Old July 21st, 2007, 06:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Since they are mentioning in the promo the full 1920x1080 resolution of the HD422 chips, those of the EX will have less - does anyone know if it's 1440x1080, or even less?
I strongly suspect 1440x1080. Pretty much the same chip as the full size 1/2 cameras.

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Old July 22nd, 2007, 06:19 AM   #25
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In the video they also used the words NEW and LOW POWER when describing the imagers. That suggests CMOS could be a real possibility.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 07:10 AM   #26
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Given Sony's love for their "Clearvid" technology I wouldn't be surprised if the EX comes with CMOS chips - I have to say I prefer the look of Sony's V1 footage over that of the Z1 when it's properly exposed. Has a sharpness and cleanness to it that's a bit more appealing to my eye than the footage from the Z1's CCDs.

What are the issues people have had with CMOS chips by the way? I've heard that people are still a little iffy about them.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 07:25 AM   #27
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Mark, I'm very pleased with the picture from my V1 CMOS'es, as well - however, somehow I've no confidence in large 1/2" chips that have never been used before. The CCD technology is much more matured.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 09:55 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Mark, I'm very pleased with the picture from my V1 CMOS'es, as well - however, somehow I've no confidence in large 1/2" chips that have never been used before. The CCD technology is much more matured.
Very large CMOS chips are far from new. The only reason they're not common is there's been no need for them. One advantage of CMOS is the photosites can cover more of the available area. Not a big drive for that with 2/3" SD chips. Big drive for that with small HD chips. However 1/2" CMOS HD chips should be a very good thing, larger photosite = more latitude + better low light performance.
Scaling up the size of the photosites isn't usually a problem, there's a camera out with 65mm sized sensors, it's scalind down when things get difficult.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 02:28 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Mark Kenfield View Post
Given Sony's love for their "Clearvid" technology I wouldn't be surprised if the EX comes with CMOS chips - I have to say I prefer the look of Sony's V1 footage over that of the Z1 when it's properly exposed. Has a sharpness and cleanness to it that's a bit more appealing to my eye than the footage from the Z1's CCDs.

What are the issues people have had with CMOS chips by the way? I've heard that people are still a little iffy about them.
I'm very happy with the CMOS in my HC3 and V1U. I really like how the cameras handle scenes with a lot of contrast. For sure better than any of my older CCD cameras.

Personally I hope the EX does come with CMOS imagers.

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Old July 23rd, 2007, 12:59 AM   #30
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It halves the vertical resolution above 30fps in order to keep up. The internals can't process a full frame at that speed, so it essentially captures odd lines, then even lines every 1/60 (@60p overcrank setting), and then plays them back at the rate of 30 or 24 frames a second depending on the normal speed you have chosen in the menu.

It's a bit difficult to explain when typing it out, but that's the basics of it.

-gb-
Are you certain thats the way the EX will work however? The V1 for example does process in the DSP 1080p 60 before it converts it to 30p or 60i. Having a DSP that can either pump out 60i or 60p to record to 1080 or 720p means it may actually contain 1080 60p. From this stage the encoder and DSP could move to any of the desired recording formats such as 30p, 60i or 720p 60p with very little problems. If the slow motion on the Ex works the way the higher end cameras do then I think I would much rather shoot 720p 60p and do the slow motion myself. If I had to choose between a 1440x540 based image and a 1280x720 based image I would choose the 720p one. Unless of chourse SONY will be recording the 720p mode by just converting the 60i to 720p 60p which doesn't really make it all that special then. I sure hope the 720p mode is really 720p and not bobbed and downscaled 1080i.
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