New Cinealta camera at DVinfo.net

Keith Wakeham · April 26th, 2006, 03:12 PM

So if you like me and spend all your money on what your working on at the time and didn't get to NAB studioDaily has been half decent on info.

Anyway Sony is releasing a new cinealta camera that should be out before NAB '07 that seems like a fully variable framerate F950 with lots of improvements with an ability to doc directly to the SRW-1 without an SRPC like genesis.

http://www.studiodaily.com/main/news/6463.html

Looks interesting, might be worth a look for some. I'll never have one but I like the look of it better than the current F series stuff. More Film camera like and Less ENG like.

Michael Devlin · April 27th, 2006, 12:15 AM

Sony does have that next generation camera here at NAB, as indicated in the referenced article. Actually, Sony is doing a number of cool things to the high end of their product line.

The HDC1500, their 3 CCD 2/3" 1080 60P camera with 14-bit A/D (eliminating pre-knee signal compression and increasing dynamic range) is very prominent at NAB as Sony's next generation technology. The HDC1500 replaced the venerable HDC950 (father (or mother?) of the F950 4:4:4 camera), and now Sony is showing 4:4:4 on the HDC1500.

It looks like the HDC1500 (and related products, see below) will replace the F950 at some point. The HDC1500 is well-integrated with the SRW1 HDCAM SR deck (880 Mbps) including support for variable frame rates (shipping today, actually the 1500 has been shipping for over six months, in large quantities to lots of folks). Unlike my F350, there is no loss of vertical resolution when overcranking above 30P, since it really is a 60P camera.

I was very impressed with the image, and Sony has added lots of options and accessories to make the product line extremely usable (new viewfinders, separable CCD block, etc)

The "filmic" camera in the article is based on much of the same technology as the HDC-1500, but optimized for feature production with various film camera type capabilities and options. As mentioned in the article, the SRW portion of the SRW-1/SRPC deck can be mounted on top of or on the back of this camera (like the Genesis). It is kind of hefty for a camcorder (I was told 10kg without lens by one of the Sony folks), but still quite impressive.

Anyway, it looks to me like Sony continues to deliver lots of innovation and a steady stream of new products.

BTW there were numerous sessions with DP's showing footage they had shot with the XDCAM HD. Very impressive, and in some cases quite spectacular.

Bill Pryor · April 28th, 2006, 03:17 PM

Mike, the Sony pdf brochure I read some time ago about the 330 and 350 said the proxy files don't work on Mac OS. But at NAB, I read that Apple announced compatibility with XDCAM HD for FCP. Do you know if that means the proxy files work or not on a Mac?

Michael Devlin · April 28th, 2006, 07:57 PM

Sorry, I don't know about the Mac. Since I use Avid & WindowsPC I was not paying attention to what was said about the Mac status. I have enough trouble keeping track of the Avid/Sony permutations!

I am sure someone else knows, I think Greg Boston was asking that question of folks.

Glenn Gipson · May 1st, 2006, 10:32 AM

If RED lives up to its specs, who is really going to want to buy this new Sony cam?

Bill Pryor · May 1st, 2006, 10:34 AM

Probably people like me.

Glenn Gipson · May 1st, 2006, 10:49 AM

Why? Doesn't seem logical, please explain.

Alister Chapman · May 1st, 2006, 12:26 PM

People that want/need to hand over the rushes at the end of the shoot.

People that need the backup and support of an established dealer network, most of which provide free loan cameras while theres is being serviced and can more often than not provide 24/48 hour turnaround.

People that already have a significant investment in standardised lenses, batteries and other options.

People that work for organisations that are already committed to "standard" formats and workflows.

People that want/like a familiar camera, one they can pick up and be up and running in moments, where they know where the switches and buttons are and what they do even if they haven't used that particular camera before.

Don't get me wrong I think Red is an awesome bit of kit that will make a huge impact, but mainly in the indie/film industry. I may be wrong but I just can't see broadcasters and production companies suddenly dropping thier a favored supplier overnight and switching to an unknown quantity with no track record in film or TV. Given time I'm sure they may come round and we'll see Red's popping up all over the place, but the people that pay my wages wan't HD, they want it now BUT they want me to supply kit form a source that they know and trust.

Glenn Gipson · May 1st, 2006, 12:31 PM

I didn’t say who would use/rent this camera at all, I meant who would buy it. But I hear you, in the end it comes down to brand loyalty (except for what you said about people already having accessories for it.) And when it comes to brand loyalty, Sony is like a religion to a lot of industry people.

Marco Leavitt · May 1st, 2006, 01:26 PM

What's the pricepoint of this new CineAlta? The latest issue of American Cinematographer has an insert advertising a new smaller CineAlta camera for like $20,000, but I haven't heard anything more about it. (I don't think it's this camera. It looks a lot smaller.)

Keith Wakeham · May 1st, 2006, 04:50 PM

I thought I heard the new pricetag for this beauty is $270 000 - I'm guessing with the HDCAM SR recorder that it docks with.

Or maybe that is another camera.

That 20K cinealta you heard about is probably the XDCAM HD one which is part of the CineAlta series

Alister Chapman · May 2nd, 2006, 02:15 AM

There is also an ergonomics issue. From what I have seen of Red it isn't geared up for news or documentary style shooting. They are really two different types of product, Red is a ground breaking entry into the Film/Drama/Indie sector and the Cinealta's, HDCAM, DVCPRO HD's etc are really all ENG "news" style camcorders that because of a lack of any real alternatives at the same price point have been used for Film/Drama. I think both types of product will continue to co-exist side by side for some years to come.

I still think that it will be a long time before many users will be comfortable with hard drives, flash cards or other non disposable media for some time to come. I know I always want my rushes on a robust, long term storage medium from the moment it is shot. I don't want to have to worry about creating back-ups or transferring files to drives or disks in the field.

April 26th, 2006, 03:12 PM	#1
Keith Wakeham Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: St. John's, NL, Canada Posts: 416	New Cinealta camera So if you like me and spend all your money on what your working on at the time and didn't get to NAB studioDaily has been half decent on info. Anyway Sony is releasing a new cinealta camera that should be out before NAB '07 that seems like a fully variable framerate F950 with lots of improvements with an ability to doc directly to the SRW-1 without an SRPC like genesis. http://www.studiodaily.com/main/news/6463.html Looks interesting, might be worth a look for some. I'll never have one but I like the look of it better than the current F series stuff. More Film camera like and Less ENG like. __________________ www.engr.mun.ca/~wakeham/index.htm

April 27th, 2006, 12:15 AM	#2
Michael Devlin Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Zephyr Cove, NV & Anchorage, AK Posts: 82	Sony does have that next generation camera here at NAB, as indicated in the referenced article. Actually, Sony is doing a number of cool things to the high end of their product line. The HDC1500, their 3 CCD 2/3" 1080 60P camera with 14-bit A/D (eliminating pre-knee signal compression and increasing dynamic range) is very prominent at NAB as Sony's next generation technology. The HDC1500 replaced the venerable HDC950 (father (or mother?) of the F950 4:4:4 camera), and now Sony is showing 4:4:4 on the HDC1500. It looks like the HDC1500 (and related products, see below) will replace the F950 at some point. The HDC1500 is well-integrated with the SRW1 HDCAM SR deck (880 Mbps) including support for variable frame rates (shipping today, actually the 1500 has been shipping for over six months, in large quantities to lots of folks). Unlike my F350, there is no loss of vertical resolution when overcranking above 30P, since it really is a 60P camera. I was very impressed with the image, and Sony has added lots of options and accessories to make the product line extremely usable (new viewfinders, separable CCD block, etc) The "filmic" camera in the article is based on much of the same technology as the HDC-1500, but optimized for feature production with various film camera type capabilities and options. As mentioned in the article, the SRW portion of the SRW-1/SRPC deck can be mounted on top of or on the back of this camera (like the Genesis). It is kind of hefty for a camcorder (I was told 10kg without lens by one of the Sony folks), but still quite impressive. Anyway, it looks to me like Sony continues to deliver lots of innovation and a steady stream of new products. BTW there were numerous sessions with DP's showing footage they had shot with the XDCAM HD. Very impressive, and in some cases quite spectacular. __________________ Mike Devlin www.dangerouspassage.com

April 28th, 2006, 07:57 PM	#4
Michael Devlin Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Zephyr Cove, NV & Anchorage, AK Posts: 82	Sorry, I don't know about the Mac. Since I use Avid & WindowsPC I was not paying attention to what was said about the Mac status. I have enough trouble keeping track of the Avid/Sony permutations! I am sure someone else knows, I think Greg Boston was asking that question of folks. __________________ Mike Devlin www.dangerouspassage.com

May 1st, 2006, 12:26 PM	#8
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	People that want/need to hand over the rushes at the end of the shoot. People that need the backup and support of an established dealer network, most of which provide free loan cameras while theres is being serviced and can more often than not provide 24/48 hour turnaround. People that already have a significant investment in standardised lenses, batteries and other options. People that work for organisations that are already committed to "standard" formats and workflows. People that want/like a familiar camera, one they can pick up and be up and running in moments, where they know where the switches and buttons are and what they do even if they haven't used that particular camera before. Don't get me wrong I think Red is an awesome bit of kit that will make a huge impact, but mainly in the indie/film industry. I may be wrong but I just can't see broadcasters and production companies suddenly dropping thier a favored supplier overnight and switching to an unknown quantity with no track record in film or TV. Given time I'm sure they may come round and we'll see Red's popping up all over the place, but the people that pay my wages wan't HD, they want it now BUT they want me to supply kit form a source that they know and trust. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

May 1st, 2006, 04:50 PM	#11
Keith Wakeham Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: St. John's, NL, Canada Posts: 416	I thought I heard the new pricetag for this beauty is $270 000 - I'm guessing with the HDCAM SR recorder that it docks with. Or maybe that is another camera. That 20K cinealta you heard about is probably the XDCAM HD one which is part of the CineAlta series __________________ www.engr.mun.ca/~wakeham/index.htm

April 28th, 2006, 03:17 PM	#3
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Mike, the Sony pdf brochure I read some time ago about the 330 and 350 said the proxy files don't work on Mac OS. But at NAB, I read that Apple announced compatibility with XDCAM HD for FCP. Do you know if that means the proxy files work or not on a Mac?

May 1st, 2006, 10:32 AM	#5
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	If RED lives up to its specs, who is really going to want to buy this new Sony cam?

May 1st, 2006, 10:34 AM	#6
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Probably people like me.

May 1st, 2006, 10:49 AM	#7
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	Why? Doesn't seem logical, please explain.

May 1st, 2006, 12:31 PM	#9
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	I didn’t say who would use/rent this camera at all, I meant who would buy it. But I hear you, in the end it comes down to brand loyalty (except for what you said about people already having accessories for it.) And when it comes to brand loyalty, Sony is like a religion to a lot of industry people.

May 1st, 2006, 01:26 PM	#10
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	What's the pricepoint of this new CineAlta? The latest issue of American Cinematographer has an insert advertising a new smaller CineAlta camera for like $20,000, but I haven't heard anything more about it. (I don't think it's this camera. It looks a lot smaller.)

May 2nd, 2006, 02:15 AM	#12
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	There is also an ergonomics issue. From what I have seen of Red it isn't geared up for news or documentary style shooting. They are really two different types of product, Red is a ground breaking entry into the Film/Drama/Indie sector and the Cinealta's, HDCAM, DVCPRO HD's etc are really all ENG "news" style camcorders that because of a lack of any real alternatives at the same price point have been used for Film/Drama. I think both types of product will continue to co-exist side by side for some years to come. I still think that it will be a long time before many users will be comfortable with hard drives, flash cards or other non disposable media for some time to come. I know I always want my rushes on a robust, long term storage medium from the moment it is shot. I don't want to have to worry about creating back-ups or transferring files to drives or disks in the field. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com