XDCAM Sample airshow footage at DVinfo.net

Alister Chapman · July 17th, 2006, 11:41 AM

I did have some clips online but for the moment I have had to take them offline. I'll re-post them as soon as I can. Sorry to anyone that was hoping to watch some sample footage.

David Mintzer · July 17th, 2006, 12:26 PM

Looks terrific!

Nate Weaver · July 17th, 2006, 01:12 PM

Ok, I'm gonna make a fool of myself and guess that the stuff at the beginning of the reel was with SD lens, and at about the 45 second mark things were either 750 w/HD lens or 350 w/HD lens.

Or put another way, everything before 45 seconds looked a teensy soft.

Hopefully I'm way off and the softness was atmosphere (which it looks like was thick that day).

[Edit. Just read my post and realized I only had criticism, without saying anything nice! Good operating, you guys, for realz. Long lens moving stuff in the sky is a bear. The cameras do indeed look good, too!]

Alister Chapman · July 17th, 2006, 01:23 PM

It was ALL shot with an SD lens on the F350, some of the softness is due to heat haze, most down to the lens. I HAVE to get an HD lens because the SD lens is limiting the final quality which is a shame because with an HD lens the 350 really rocks.

My SD lens is soft when fully wide, no too bad at mid to long end. The question is... which lens to get?

Interestingly I also shot a lot of stuff with a F750 with HD lens and the new colour viewfinder. I found focus to be a big issue (also with the 350), as while it may look sharp in the VF it's not until you get to view the footage on a big monitor that you really see the out of focus parts of the image. I had problems with interviews where the person would move just an inch forward or back and you could see the skin on thier face go soft while thier ears became sharp, something that was not apparent in the VF. Not sure what the answer is as a big monitor and ENG style shooting just don't go together.

Chris Barcellos · July 17th, 2006, 01:41 PM

I shot some air show stuff with the FX1 earlier this year, and will try to post a few clips later to compare.

What I note about the shots you had is that you are obviously "inside" enough to set up up your shots. My experience was the first air show I had been to in 20 years, and I had no idea where everything was coming from. I was a pure spectator. Despite that, I learned enough to know I would do a few things different next time.

So, big question. Are you shoulder mounting or are you shooting on tripod. In earlier discussions about airshows, guys are claiming you need to give up on a tripod.

Nate Weaver · July 17th, 2006, 01:42 PM

Actually, that's great news, Alister. I was hoping I'd be wrong and some of the sharp shots would be SD lens. I think you're proving it's not as simple as "An SD lens is not sharp enough for HD". It's more like, "An SD lens is sharp sometimes, other times not so sharp". For real, paying work however, it's better to take the first viewpoint.

About focus, well...frankly, it's all about practice and experience. The truth of the matter is that even the good HDCAM VFs don't show nearly enough resolution, so you have to do it a lot and learn WHEN the VF peaking could be lying to you, and learn to be extra careful.

Case in point, now you know when shooting wide open at whatever focal length, that only a portion of a person's face is going to be in focus. Chances are you won't make that mistake again!

You just shoot, practice, get better, and stack the odds in your favor with the highest res monitor you can manage to rent or buy.

Alister Chapman · July 17th, 2006, 02:00 PM

Chris it was all off the tripod, you can use a long lens and get a steady shot without one.

Nate, There is a lot of variation in which shots end up sharp and which not so sharp and I havn't really worked out why yet. Some is down to hitting the aperture sweet spot where the lens is at it's optimum seems to be around F8 on my lens. As for the VF, the problem is that just because it looks pin sharp in the VF, dosn't meen its in focus. If you can't actually see the last tiny bit (that makes all the difference) then you just have to guess, hope and pray that your judgement is correct. That's not how it should be you really need a better monitoring/focus solution.

Simon Wyndham · July 17th, 2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Not sure what the answer is as a big monitor and ENG style shooting just don't go together.

It is a problem yes. But I'm not sure it is more of a problem than usual when viewing distances and normal viewing conditions are taken into account. I had a similar problem to you with an interview subject moving around rather more than I would have wanted. But remember that people shooting film have had the same problem for years, and they don't always get it right either. I think that ultimately it is something we'll have to live with until cameras have built in very high res monitoring.

A seperate monitor and ENG do not go together.

Quote:

optimum seems to be around F8 on my lens

Which lens are you using?

Nate Weaver · July 17th, 2006, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

As for the VF, the problem is that just because it looks pin sharp in the VF, dosn't meen its in focus. If you can't actually see the last tiny bit (that makes all the difference) then you just have to guess, hope and pray that your judgement is correct.

No sir, I'm aware that the finder doesn't show you enough.

But what I am saying is that guessing, hoping and praying won't be necessary (as much)after you do it for a year straight. :-)

It's like playing an instrument. At first it may not make sense how your fingers and brain would be able to play a guitar solo, but if you try enough eventually it just starts happening on it's own even though your "instrument" isn't as good as you'd like!

Chris Barcellos · July 17th, 2006, 10:38 PM

As promised, here are some FX1 Airshow clips for comparison.

This is simulated bomb run by A10

http://www.makeyourfilm.net/downloads/airbombrun.wmv

This is shot of a Blue Angel fly over:

http://www.makeyourfilm.net/downloads/airshowangels.wmv

This is a crowd scene clip with flags blowing in wind. I slow motioned this at about 50%

http://www.makeyourfilm.net/downloads/airshowslomo.wmv

This is clip of a local well know flyer:

http://www.makeyourfilm.net/downloads/airshowclip1.wmv

Steve Connor · August 10th, 2006, 04:12 PM

I'm starting cutting the show that Alister mentioned next week and I've just realised how many different HD Cameras were involved in the various stages of filming.

HDW 750 HDCam
350 XDcam HD
Canon H1
Sony HC3 and HC1
Sony Z1
Sanyo Xacti!

Should be an interesting few weeks.

BTW Alister you can repost the original clip if you want.

Steve Connor · August 11th, 2006, 03:19 PM

Just completed my first day's capturing. I started with the XDCam HD footage and I have to say it looks stunning, much much better than I had imagined.

Alister Chapman · August 12th, 2006, 03:03 PM

The clips are back up they are..

http://www.ingenioustv.co.uk/clips/riat1080.wmv 96Mb 1080i wmv

and

http://www.ingenioustv.co.uk/clips/riat720.wmv 60Mb 720P wmv

Simon Wyndham · August 13th, 2006, 02:32 PM

Hi Alister,

Good stuff. Loved the shot behind the tail of the one aircraft (Su or Mig-29?) with the Red Arrows in the background. Nice blue skies always help too!

July 17th, 2006, 11:41 AM	#1
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	XDCAM Sample airshow footage I did have some clips online but for the moment I have had to take them offline. I'll re-post them as soon as I can. Sorry to anyone that was hoping to watch some sample footage. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com Last edited by Alister Chapman; July 17th, 2006 at 01:52 PM.

July 17th, 2006, 12:26 PM	#2
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	Looks terrific! __________________ Red #97

July 17th, 2006, 01:12 PM	#3
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Ok, I'm gonna make a fool of myself and guess that the stuff at the beginning of the reel was with SD lens, and at about the 45 second mark things were either 750 w/HD lens or 350 w/HD lens. Or put another way, everything before 45 seconds looked a teensy soft. Hopefully I'm way off and the softness was atmosphere (which it looks like was thick that day). [Edit. Just read my post and realized I only had criticism, without saying anything nice! Good operating, you guys, for realz. Long lens moving stuff in the sky is a bear. The cameras do indeed look good, too!] __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

July 17th, 2006, 01:23 PM	#4
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	It was ALL shot with an SD lens on the F350, some of the softness is due to heat haze, most down to the lens. I HAVE to get an HD lens because the SD lens is limiting the final quality which is a shame because with an HD lens the 350 really rocks. My SD lens is soft when fully wide, no too bad at mid to long end. The question is... which lens to get? Interestingly I also shot a lot of stuff with a F750 with HD lens and the new colour viewfinder. I found focus to be a big issue (also with the 350), as while it may look sharp in the VF it's not until you get to view the footage on a big monitor that you really see the out of focus parts of the image. I had problems with interviews where the person would move just an inch forward or back and you could see the skin on thier face go soft while thier ears became sharp, something that was not apparent in the VF. Not sure what the answer is as a big monitor and ENG style shooting just don't go together. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

July 17th, 2006, 01:41 PM	#5
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I shot some air show stuff with the FX1 earlier this year, and will try to post a few clips later to compare. What I note about the shots you had is that you are obviously "inside" enough to set up up your shots. My experience was the first air show I had been to in 20 years, and I had no idea where everything was coming from. I was a pure spectator. Despite that, I learned enough to know I would do a few things different next time. So, big question. Are you shoulder mounting or are you shooting on tripod. In earlier discussions about airshows, guys are claiming you need to give up on a tripod. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

July 17th, 2006, 01:42 PM	#6
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Actually, that's great news, Alister. I was hoping I'd be wrong and some of the sharp shots would be SD lens. I think you're proving it's not as simple as "An SD lens is not sharp enough for HD". It's more like, "An SD lens is sharp sometimes, other times not so sharp". For real, paying work however, it's better to take the first viewpoint. About focus, well...frankly, it's all about practice and experience. The truth of the matter is that even the good HDCAM VFs don't show nearly enough resolution, so you have to do it a lot and learn WHEN the VF peaking could be lying to you, and learn to be extra careful. Case in point, now you know when shooting wide open at whatever focal length, that only a portion of a person's face is going to be in focus. Chances are you won't make that mistake again! You just shoot, practice, get better, and stack the odds in your favor with the highest res monitor you can manage to rent or buy. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

July 17th, 2006, 02:00 PM	#7
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Chris it was all off the tripod, you can use a long lens and get a steady shot without one. Nate, There is a lot of variation in which shots end up sharp and which not so sharp and I havn't really worked out why yet. Some is down to hitting the aperture sweet spot where the lens is at it's optimum seems to be around F8 on my lens. As for the VF, the problem is that just because it looks pin sharp in the VF, dosn't meen its in focus. If you can't actually see the last tiny bit (that makes all the difference) then you just have to guess, hope and pray that your judgement is correct. That's not how it should be you really need a better monitoring/focus solution. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

July 17th, 2006, 10:38 PM	#10
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	FX1 Air show clips As promised, here are some FX1 Airshow clips for comparison. This is simulated bomb run by A10 http://www.makeyourfilm.net/downloads/airbombrun.wmv This is shot of a Blue Angel fly over: http://www.makeyourfilm.net/downloads/airshowangels.wmv This is a crowd scene clip with flags blowing in wind. I slow motioned this at about 50% http://www.makeyourfilm.net/downloads/airshowslomo.wmv This is clip of a local well know flyer: http://www.makeyourfilm.net/downloads/airshowclip1.wmv __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

August 10th, 2006, 04:12 PM	#11
Steve Connor Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK Posts: 383	I'm starting cutting the show that Alister mentioned next week and I've just realised how many different HD Cameras were involved in the various stages of filming. HDW 750 HDCam 350 XDcam HD Canon H1 Sony HC3 and HC1 Sony Z1 Sanyo Xacti! Should be an interesting few weeks. BTW Alister you can repost the original clip if you want.

August 11th, 2006, 03:19 PM	#12
Steve Connor Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK Posts: 383	Just completed my first day's capturing. I started with the XDCam HD footage and I have to say it looks stunning, much much better than I had imagined.

August 12th, 2006, 03:03 PM	#13
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	The clips are back up they are.. http://www.ingenioustv.co.uk/clips/riat1080.wmv 96Mb 1080i wmv and http://www.ingenioustv.co.uk/clips/riat720.wmv 60Mb 720P wmv __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

August 13th, 2006, 02:32 PM	#14
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Hi Alister, Good stuff. Loved the shot behind the tail of the one aircraft (Su or Mig-29?) with the Red Arrows in the background. Nice blue skies always help too!