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Sony XDCAM PMW-F3 CineAlta
HD recording with a Super35 CMOS Sensor.


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Old September 27th, 2010, 10:52 AM   #46
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Agree Craig it seems strange.
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Old October 17th, 2010, 05:44 PM   #47
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I am kicking this thread as things are heating up with the immanent release of the AF-100/101 and there are lots of us who have been sitting on the sidelines waiting for more information on Sony's full sensor offering in the pro DOF market.

I noted earlier today that the AF100/101 will perform overcranking all the way up to 60 FPS using 1080p.

Sony's being really tight lipped about what there camera will offer. No word on pricing yet, no word on HD-SDI specs. I look at the body of the camera and it tells me it's about a 8 to 10,000 dollar camera but I see the viewfinder on the 3D camera. If that one lands on the 35mm one that could kick things up another 5 grand or more (up to 12 grand if it requires a pro viewfinder).

I can't see Sony loosing sales by holding onto key information for much longer. Does anyone have more info on the product?
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 12:44 AM   #48
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Well, I don't know if this is a good place for this for sure, or if it should go in area 51, but there is
this about the new Sony:
Sony PMW-Ex35 HD Cinematography Camera with PL Mount and Full HD 35mm image sensor
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 01:18 AM   #49
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Hmmmm..... Essentially a EX1 with a 35 mm sensor.... great news if true and would be a real threat to the Panny AF100 if it had interchangable lenses, which it would seem to have.

Oh, I love a good fight!
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 04:10 AM   #50
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At an estimated price of 12.500£ it is in my opinion no treat to the Panny AF100 at 3.400£.

Normally I do ENG type of work with my old and trusted F330, but next year I have some short film production coming up.
For that purpose I have been looking into buying a second camera.
As I am a one man band I have no economic room for several cameras at a price tag of more than 10.000£

The 35mm cameras is unusable for my normal work, whit their shallow dept of field.
For film production, SOME of the scenes would benefit from shallow dept op field.

The Panny is not what I am looking for, with its 8 bit SDI output and a sensor size making my Nikon FX lenses long.

If not something more suitable is coming up I think I will rather sell my 330 and buy a Sony PMW 350 and shoot the shallow dept of field scenes with some tele and iris wide open.

And no I will not go the DSLR way. With all its bit and pieces needed it will be as expensive as the new Sony and still have the moiré, aliasing and bad ergonomics.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 05:42 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Brian Bang Jensen
I think I will rather sell my 330 and buy a Sony PMW 350 and shoot the shallow depth of field scenes with some tele and iris wide open.
It's worth thinking of exactly what the difference will be. The AF101 sensor will be very close to 4x the area of the 2/3" sensor of the PMW350. That will give it a 2 stop difference in terms of depth of field - you'll have to have the PMW350 opened up 2 stops relative to the AF101 for the same depth of field.

But - even the stock lens with the PMW350 is f1.9 (and on a 16x motorised zoom). Hence, for a any given angle of view, you'll need to get about f3.5 on the AF101 to match that, and at least f2.8 or more to substantially better it. That's certainly possible with some primes - but any sort of affordable zoom for that size of sensor is likely to be more like f4-5.6, and not have the benefits of motor zoom etc as well.

So if you go for the AF101, are you prepared to get a set of good fast primes? And accept a lot of lens changing on set? It's also worth pointing out that frequent lens changing with a digital sensored camera carries a risk that didn't exist when doing the same with film. That's dirt - get something behind the lens with film and it may be gone as the film moves on, or at worst give a hair in the gate for a shot or two. Potentially, it's likely to be far more difficult to get rid of with a digital sensor.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 07:01 AM   #52
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Thanks for your comments David.

You are confirming me in what I have also figured out.
And on top of that have put some exact values on it.

Fist time I heard of the AF101, I thought.
“Hey here is an affordable film camera to go in, for film type of work, as my second, and on top of that I can use my Nikons”

The more information I get I can see this opportunity fading away, and that there is more business sense in getting a descend 2/3 camera instead.

On my initial thoughts I would have put my 24-70 and 70-200 f2.8 Nikon lenses in the front.
But as they will bee twice the focal length, it will leave me with no wide angle lens!!
Buying a set of primes is not an opportunity for me, and as you pointed out. It is a nightmare to change lenses all the time. Believe me, I have been there with DSLR.

As it looks from my point of view the PMW 350 looks like a winner as the multipurpose camera for my business.

Maybe the new Sony will fit someone who only goes the film way. But for me the solution will bee too expensive, considering the benefits I will get.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 07:58 AM   #53
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Anything less than 10-bit from the HD-SDI and HDMI ports is just stupid. Panny made this mistake. The usual justification is "10-bit from the HD-SDI would make the camera more expensive," yet no one says how much. Would it be $10,000, $1,000, or $20 more?
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 08:00 AM   #54
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Another point worth considering when thinking about using a camera that will need frequent lens changes is the matter of back-focus. One might find that with all the changing, this might go adrift and will need appropriate adjusting...
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 04:13 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Daniel Caruso View Post
i only hope sony releases information and estimate price before i buy an af100, cause if 7000cdn will be my af100, could be worth it to put the extra for a 35mm sensor.
Panasonic AG-AF100 Body: $4,999.00 at Vistek.ca

...My predictions for this mysterious "affordable" Sony 35mm sensor camera :

- Price: $20,000+

- Will not ship in 2011

I honestly feel that Sony was a little freaked-out by the announcement of the Panasonic AF-100 and had to cook-up something fast as a response.

...My predictions for the Panasonic AF-100:

- It will ship in quantity in the 1st quarter of 2011 ( though initial units will start trickling in at the end of Dec 2010 )

- It will be like the introduction of the HVX200 camera, and sell like hot-cakes in 2011 ( effectively owning this new large-sensor prosumer market for all of 2011 )

- The AF-100 will be a lot better than many people expect
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 04:27 PM   #56
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I think Sony will have a similar product to compete with the AF-100 from Panasonic. The community has known about the AF-100 since NAB and I would guess that industry people new about it long before that.

What would surprise me is if Sony did not have a model right around the corner given the NEX camera is already out there.

NAB this year will be quite interesting and I agree, the AF-100 will be a great tool. For me, I am waiting for a servo-driven model that can act more like a video camera if needed.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 05:14 PM   #57
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Hi Guy,

There are a lot of rumours going around right now particularly in the last couple of days about Sony's "new" products. I am not going to feed the rumour mill except to say that apparently Sony is going to have a public announcement later in November that will spell out more details about their "affordable" 35mm sensor camera and it is supposed to be less than 20 grand and THIS camera is suppose to be aimed at people in the Red market and it will have a PL mount. This is not their answer to the AF100/101. Info flying around beyond this is too far of an extrapolation from what Sony has already said about this 35mm sensored box and other cameras that they have not even mentioned in a public way.

I think it is safe to say the AF100/101 marketing has gone nuclear on the net. You sure have to hand it to Panasonic. They played the user input & viral marketing on this extremely well. I sure hope Sony is taking copious notes on this. Take a step off DVinfo and look around at the net buzz on the AF100. It is wild. A full blown juggernaut.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 05:37 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Polster View Post
I think Sony will have a similar product to compete with the AF-100 from Panasonic. The community has known about the AF-100 since NAB and I would guess that industry people new about it long before that.
I agree, but I think Sony will be at least 6 months to 1 year behind Panasonic, mainly because Panasonic already had proven 4/3 sensor / lens technology and the AVCHD encoding engine from the HMC-150, so leveraging these in to a mid priced prosumer video camera was a great move by them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Polster View Post
What would surprise me is if Sony did not have a model right around the corner given the NEX camera is already out there.
Sony is terrified of harming their prosumer camera lines, which is why none of their consumer video cameras have something as simple as a 24P mode. ( Canon and Panasonic consumer cams have had 24P for a few years now )

I feel that Sony will sit on their hands, much like Canon prosumer video did for the past couple of years, because they are not willing to take this risk.

The NEX-VG10 is a "dead-duck" as far as market share goes. It's too expensive and awkward for consumers, with virtually no prosumer features for the professionals. ( I was surprised at how bad the moire is with this camera, and I don't understand why Sony didn't fix this )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Polster View Post
NAB this year will be quite interesting and I agree, the AF-100 will be a great tool. For me, I am waiting for a servo-driven model that can act more like a video camera if needed.
The problem with "servo-driven models" will be the cost of the lenses. I expect a servo-driven prosumer lens that covers the 4/3 format to cost upwards of $3,000+ ( maybe upwards of $5,000+ ), which might be too expensive for this new large-sensor prosumer market.

Being able to buy a fast and sharp Panasonic 20mm f1.7 prime for under $400 is what I think the AF100 market is going to be about. I expect to see a lot of new fast primes in the 4/3 market in 2011-12, with pricing in the $500 - $2,000 range.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 06:12 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Guy McLoughlin View Post
...My predictions for this mysterious "affordable" Sony 35mm sensor camera :

- Price: $20,000+

- Will not ship in 2011

I honestly feel that Sony was a little freaked-out by the announcement of the Panasonic AF-100 and had to cook-up something fast as a response.

...My predictions for the Panasonic AF-100:

- It will ship in quantity in the 1st quarter of 2011 ( though initial units will start trickling in at the end of Dec 2010 )

- It will be like the introduction of the HVX200 camera, and sell like hot-cakes in 2011 ( effectively owning this new large-sensor prosumer market for all of 2011 )

- The AF-100 will be a lot better than many people expect
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 06:18 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Andrew Stone View Post
I am not going to feed the rumour mill except to say that apparently Sony is going to have a public announcement later in November that will spell out more details about their "affordable" 35mm sensor camera and it is supposed to be less than 20 grand and THIS camera is suppose to be aimed at people in the Red market and it will have a PL mount.
I hope this holds true, as it will be interesting to see RED finally have some competition in their price range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Stone View Post
This is not their answer to the AF100/101
I agree, but so far Sony has done little to clear up this misconception. When Panasonic announced the AF-100 the day before NAB opened, it really seemed like just Sony threw together a large-sensor "affordable" mock-up to show that they were still in the game. The timing and the lack of details from Sony seemed very odd at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Stone View Post
I think it is safe to say the AF100/101 marketing has gone nuclear on the net.
...Which might be justifiable, as this is the first prosumer video camera to deliver a DSLR video image without all the DSLR problems at a $5K price tag, and that is a big deal to many shooters.

The AF-100 won't replace ENG cameras for ENG style work ( I'm keeping my HMC-150 ), but I definitely plan on buying one for my corporate and indy film-making work. ( I'm not an early adopter, so I'm going to wait until May before I take the plunge. I want to be certain all of the bugs have been shaken out. )
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