Sony UK to Announce PMW-F3 at 10am UTC on Facebook - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

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Sony XDCAM PMW-F3 CineAlta
HD recording with a Super35 CMOS Sensor.


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Old November 8th, 2010, 11:21 AM   #16
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Sorry for the multiple posts. Trying to triangulate between what was said in the Sony's online chat session in Facebook and the marketing material on their website. There is a bit of conflicting information.

The following paragraph from Sony's UK website leads one to a lot of hope and enthusiasm about this camera:

Quote:
From April 2011, a Dual Link HD-SDI option will enable 10bit RGB 23.98/25/29.97PsF or 10 bit 4:2:2 108050P/59.94P uncompressed external recording – ideal for integration with highest quality production workflows such as HDCAM SR. The PMW-F3K also supports selectable Gamma, four levels of HyperGamma and S-Log (recording) for a wide range of shooting conditions from standard to wide latitude. The PMW-F3K can simultaneously record LUT (Look Up Table) information onto the internal media for additional workflow flexibility.

3G-SDI is available for 10bit RGB 1080 23.98/25/29.97PsF or 10bit 4:2:2 1080 50/59.94P output.
So according to this marketing material the camera does shoot 1080p60 (or thereabouts of course). It is possible, it got yanked and the Marketing Manager was off message on Facebook. Hope not.

S-Log recording is huge. It is like shooting RAW. S-Log is available on Sony's very high end F35 and it is being brought down to this camera. It shoots a very flat image but will contain the greatest amount of latitude for yanking the image in post.

Here is a bit on it from the F35 product page on the Sony UK site:

Quote:
To maximise the creative possibilities of the camera’s dynamic range, it is best to shoot S-Log (Sony-Log) via the Cine Mode setting and capture as much information as possible.

“By doing so you are stripping away the camera’s ability to process the image and providing a very flat output. But you are capturing a lot more detail to the digital negative, which allows you a greater range of contrast for colour grading in post,”
What will be interesting to see, if this camera has the colour tool box of the F35 as it is being positioned by Sony as a B-camera to their high end product line.

Other considerations, the LCD screen is effectively the same as the EX1R so the Hoodman Pro Diopter attachment should work on this camera for those times when attaching a Marshall isn't in the cards. The F3 has genlock and timecode, like the EX3. It uses 24 watts when recording but with the LCD off. You will want to be running something like an Anton Bauer Dionic 90 off this puppy. In pounds this camera weighs 5.3. A Zeiss compact prime is about 2 pounds, a Dionic is 1.9 lbs, a nanoflash is .8 lbs, bringing it to around 10 pounds. Rails, FF and mattebox would bring it to 12 to 14 pounds. Steadicam Ops using motors would be in the 20 pound range.

Apparently the US street price at this point in time is $16,000. Remember how the price of the EX3 came down on launch but this price does sound about right - if it had overcrank to the SxS cards!

A DVinfo member, Paul Joy, has some very useful and insightful info and images on the F3 through his website:

http://www.pauljoy.com/sony-f3/

Last edited by Andrew Stone; November 8th, 2010 at 12:39 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old November 8th, 2010, 11:54 AM   #17
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This link shows the camera from all angles and has descriptions.

Sony F3 ? closeups & thoughts | Paul Joy
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Old November 8th, 2010, 12:00 PM   #18
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Looks like a cross between a VX2000 and a RED ONE. Hopefully direct SDI will yield quality closer to the SI-2K or the SI-2K Mini.
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Old November 8th, 2010, 03:16 PM   #19
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Another press release/brief news article that is worth checking out:

Sony's PMW-F3 Targets Indie Filmmakers | Studio Daily
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Old November 8th, 2010, 08:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
New CMOS Sensor
Sony wouldn't say much about the new Exmor CMOS sensor that has been developed internally for the F3. Officials confirmed that it has an effective pixel resolution of 1920x1080 but wouldn't discuss color filtering. Crithary said more info will be available for launch, calling the new chip "a big step up from previous CMOS technology." The rolling-shutter effect colloquially known as "Jellocam" is said to be improved but not quite eliminated.
Sounds good, but cost way to much for my budget. too bad. I'd love to play with one.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 03:54 AM   #21
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If Sony brings a consumer model of this camera, - without the TC in, TC out and genlock, and a price of less than half what it costs now, then they have a winner. Very intelligent to use the well-proven, easy-to-edit MPEG2-Long GOP, as well.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 04:27 AM   #22
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Given all the pro features, I suspect Sony are leaving the consumer market to the DSLRs. How it fairs against the Panasonic AF100 will be another matter, which could have the "good enough" factor for those people wanting a larger sensor, but with less of the DSLR artefacts.

It seems to be aiming at those professionals who want a large sensor camera without having to use the RAW that'll be used on the 35mm sensor Scarlet (which seems drifting further into the future).
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Old November 9th, 2010, 06:02 AM   #23
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Don't forget the NEX-VG10, which is consumer video. It has HDMI out (perhaps uncompressed), APS-C sensor etc,.

Of course it suffers aliasing and poor build quality.

But isn't there a rumour of a prosumer version of the NEX series in the new year? Perhaps that is for the AF100?

I suspect the F3 would have a better image than the AF100, it's a dedicated sensor, not a retrofitted dSLR sensor. As always the proof is in the pudding, so lets wait and see some footage.

At that price it would make for a reasonably priced rental camera.

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Old November 9th, 2010, 06:56 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Curtis View Post
At that price it would make for a reasonably priced rental camera.
I agree that all indications so far suggest Sony are directly targeting that slice of the market with this camera (particularly with the lens options at launch). Question is, priced as is currently announced, will a rental-oriented camera "sell like hot cakes" and do Sony need/want it to (perhaps a silly question) ?

The initial pricing does seem to leave a gaping hole in the lineup between the VG10 and the F3. Trouble is, from first look at the specs there are very few places where Sony have left room to carve out a camera that fits the "middle-ground" while still allowing them to justify such a (relatively) high price for the F3.


- Guess work of what a "F-VG-3-10" might comprise:

Codec: No room to move below the 35Mbps XDCAM-EX or improve much on the 24Mbps AVCHD, I would expect the former to still be offered at the prosumer level.

Sensor: Either a (1080p)S35 or a (14.2MP)APS-C size - perhaps a native 1080p APS-C sensor seems the logical compromise to offer, and perhaps with a step down in sensitivity against the F3.

Pro-connections: Perhaps lose the highest HD-SDI options, but would otherwise need to be EX3 comparable on this front.

Pro-functions: I think most EX3-like functions should still remain. Perhaps lose the cache record (if only for "cripple factor").

The only other obvious variables are build quality (materials) and ergonomic design compromises.

This will keep me scratchng my head until the 17th, and perhaps beyond!
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Old November 9th, 2010, 07:27 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Dave Elston View Post
Guess work of what a "F-VG-3-10" might comprise:
It seems based around the sensor. either the mass produced NEX sensor or a custom sensor like the F3.

The details on the F3 however aren't available, it is bayer? is it something else? Are they taking a NEX sensor and reading out *every* line and downsampling? (very cool if that's the case but unlikely). If they're going to the extreme of creating a new 1080p APS-C sensor then they must be expecting some reasonable numbers or high margin and it looks like high margin.

I think the compromise for a lower end will be in the sensor. If they stick a video OLPF in front of the NEX sensor that might do it. AVCHD with video based NEX sensor and uncompressed HDMI and XLRs would be my guess. And E mount. The cost of that NEX sensor must be almost nothing. If they do that then that's a bit better than the AF100.

perhaps, who knows

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Old November 10th, 2010, 03:03 AM   #26
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Replying to myself, first sign of madness?

It seems that F3 sensor is a dedicated new 1080p video sensor which much larger pixel sizes (12 micron). So that's the big difference and i look forward to seeing it in action. I suspect the quality will be very high, compared to AF100 and NEX and dSLRs in general.

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Old November 10th, 2010, 04:26 AM   #27
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I think this is the critical thing. Those who damn this camera for it's price point are doing so before seeing what that new sensor can deliver. My guess is that it'll totally blow people away because of the technical advance that this new sensor may bring - the few specs that are known sound exciting (maybe exceptional low light performance? ....much better than even a 5D MkII maybe?)

But let's see it in action first before judging if it's worth it's price tag!!!
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Old November 10th, 2010, 11:22 AM   #28
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I think this is the critical thing. Those who damn this camera for it's price point are doing so before seeing what that new sensor can deliver.
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Oh i definetly think that this camera will blow the Af-100 out of the water in terms of sheer picture quality, BUT...

i think the real problem is that at that price range its going to have to go toe to toe with the Red One and Alexa, even in the rental market. I see those two cams as its legitimate competition, as the price puts it far away from the market the AF-100/Scarlet/HDSLR curretnly appeal to. Based purely on specs (which we can't really know how it performs until it...performs) it doesn't look like this cam will able to hold its own. R1's with the Mysterium sensor are a beauty to behold.

Mind you, this is NOT taking into consideration the S35 Scarlet or Epic, which either by itself could be a total game changer.

I would only approach this camera as an option for rental, and given that, I'd likely rather rent R1 or Alexa. I doubt a staggering many would swing the other way.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 05:56 PM   #29
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If this camera is in the 16k category and set to go against RED, shouldn't it bring something better than a 4:2:0 color space? and something better than sub 2k resolution? Who is this camera targeted at?
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Old November 10th, 2010, 06:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson View Post
Those who damn this camera for it's price point are doing so before seeing what that new sensor can deliver.
Not angry, heartbroken. I was hoping to own one, now I know I can't. Simply as that.
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