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Sony XDCAM PMW-F3 CineAlta
HD recording with a Super35 CMOS Sensor.


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Old November 14th, 2010, 02:38 PM   #76
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Super 35 isn't traditionally used as a shooting anamorphic system. the squeeze is given by the lab or in post for use in projection prints. This is different to the anamorphic systems like Panavision which uses the full 4 perf standard 35mm motion picture frame.

The 3 perf mentioned could refer to height being used on the sensor, since in motion pictures film you can have the Super 35 width i.e using the soundtrack area for imaging, but shooting using a 3 perf pull down. This pull down has become more common in recent years, the 35mm Aaton Penelope being an example of a camera that does this.

Super 35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old November 14th, 2010, 04:22 PM   #77
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As Brian says, both Super 35 and 3 perf are spherical formats (non-anamorphic). Both have the same negative width which is fractionally higher that that of the F3's sensor. When cropped to 16:9 Super 35's negative area is identical to 3 perf.

Both formats take advantage of the area occupied by the optical audio track on release prints in order to gain area over the traditional Academy frame. As the name suggests, 3 perf only pulls the negative down by 3 sprocket holes (perfs) per frame whereas Super 35 pulls it down by 4. Super 35 uses that extra negative to expose a 4:3 frame which is then cropped if/as required.

If Super 35 is cropped to 16:9 the additional information above and below the 16:9 crop is discarded and the only real difference is that 3 perf uses stock more efficiently. Super 35 does however allow for a certain amount of reframing in post if required.

So the F3 sensor would best be described as "Super 35 (1.78 crop)" or "35 mm 3-perf" sized. (Although it is a tiny bit smaller.)

Lenses designed to cover the Academy frame could vignette on the F3, so it's important to know that the sensor is larger than that format and is closer to 3-perf and Super 35
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Old November 14th, 2010, 06:56 PM   #78
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Lenses designed to cover the Academy frame could vignette on the F3, so it's important to know that the sensor is larger than that format and is closer to 3-perf and Super 35
That observation could save someone from making VERY costly mistake!
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Old November 15th, 2010, 02:35 AM   #79
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This is already a consideration with the RED One, but surprising numbers of older lenses can be used with that camera. Some people prefer the softer look of say the older Cookes to modern glass on the digital cameras. However, it's something to be checked.
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Old November 15th, 2010, 11:25 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
This camera is a major game changer at the middle-level of production.
It would have been a couple of years ago, but the economics have changed and so has technology. Sony are too late to the party with the F3, it looks out-dated and will certainly look outmoded compared to offerings from RED and Canon due to be released in the months ahead. Shame really, I could have used this camera all year if it had been available.
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Old November 15th, 2010, 12:08 PM   #81
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It would have been a couple of years ago, but the economics have changed and so has technology. Sony are too late to the party with the F3, it looks out-dated and will certainly look outmoded compared to offerings from RED and Canon due to be released in the months ahead. Shame really, I could have used this camera all year if it had been available.
I guess it depends on what you do. The rental of a camera or two as a % of a budget is pretty minor. I think it might move a lot of people from 1/2 or 2/3rd up and in fact probably some higher end lower. I think even indy production companies may invest. As a % of running a business it's not that great either. In that world no one got fired for buying Sony.

Of course it depends whether it's any good. But on paper it should be demonstrably better then AF100 and dSLRs. If it's not then i'm sure sony will feel the pain accordingly.

Canon have not announced anything yet so it's a little difficult to know what their plans are. And Red, well, they're Red. There's nothing in that price range to speak of yet.

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Old November 15th, 2010, 03:13 PM   #82
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Paul, I work at both ends of the industry - if I'm going to rent I'll rent Epic or Alexa or Phantom. If I'm going to buy, I'll buy Scarlet or 5D MIII or whatever new wave, low-cost technology takes my fancy in the coming months and that's my point. This camera is neither fish nor foul. If it offered RAW it would be another matter, but it doesn't, so it's not:)
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Old November 15th, 2010, 11:38 PM   #83
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All pretty interesting. Can't wait to try one. I agree that this isn't a replacement for the PDW- 800 or the EX1 or 3 . This is a whole 'nother thing. Another tool available to us. i've seen the low light capabilities of the F-35 and 9000PL in s-log at zero gain and the results were truly stunning. If the quality of this camera is even close... I'm in.
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Old November 16th, 2010, 01:15 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Liam Hall View Post
Paul, I work at both ends of the industry - if I'm going to rent I'll rent Epic or Alexa or Phantom. If I'm going to buy, I'll buy Scarlet or 5D MIII or whatever new wave, low-cost technology takes my fancy in the coming months and that's my point. This camera is neither fish nor foul. If it offered RAW it would be another matter, but it doesn't, so it's not:)
I understand where you're coming from and i think it's a little early to pigeon hole this camera because we've not seen anything from it. In theory:

- It has a seriously sensitive sensor (12micron pixels). Could be a lot more sensitive than Red.
- Sony sensors have always been pretty good at tungsten and low light
- SLog compatibility in the future for those than need that (no need for RAW)
- From above i presume that you can record to card for edit and capture SLog for finishing
- A dedicated zoom next year (and wasn't that mooted to be autofocus too?)

And this is an EX style handycam package. As i see crew sizes diminishing and mid range productions becoming more streamlined then i think this package offers something there. If you work at high and low then you're not going to notice the middle so much. That's where i think this would work best.

Scarlet and 5D MkIII don't exist to all intents and purposes - *maybe* 2011 for those. Canon is increasing megapixels not range. I read tha Canon are aiming for scaling full photo frames down to HD which is a great target. And I think Red just may concentrate on the high end and Epic. They will struggle to compete in price against dDLRs and AF100 and the strength of consumer electronics firms.

This industry is moving so fast that from a personal perspective unless i can cover the cost of a camera in one or two shows i would rent. I have a bad enough obsession with buying stills cameras and lenses!

So i think this may sit firmly in the middle. But we should all reserve judgement until we see this thing actually working!

cheers
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Old November 16th, 2010, 02:56 AM   #85
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I'd prefer less of the handicam layout, the EX1 & EX3 are at the limits of that layout. I'm not too sure about how good these large sensor cameras are at reducing crew sizes, focus does become more critical and the 2/3" cameras have been doing the small crew sizes for many years, so there's nothing new in that.

The big difference has been the reduction in cost in getting a broadcast type quality camera kit in recent years. The recording codec used may depend on how well the post people are set up, I won't count doing your own editing, but going to 3rd party editors, which many producers do.
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Old November 16th, 2010, 01:21 PM   #86
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Photos of the F3 on a film shoot. Camera shown rigged up with a bunch of different lens, rails and on a steadicam. The body looks like it is pretty close to being in it's final production form. The following link is on Facebook so you may have to login to see the photo album:

On the set of "The Red Balloon": shot with the new Sony F3 | Facebook
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Old November 16th, 2010, 05:15 PM   #87
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I'd prefer less of the handicam layout, the EX1 & EX3 are at the limits of that layout.
Yes, but the thing is that this camera is for those situations where it isn't practical for an F35 or SRW9000. A balanced shoulder mount config, or even an EX3 style config would be too big for what it is intended for.

For once I like this type of form factor because it means that there is an option there for a very highly portable camera that will have virtually no compromises in picture quality. Packable down to an even smaller size than an EX1. Perfect.
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Old November 16th, 2010, 05:57 PM   #88
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I feel its a matter of having the viewfinder at the front rather than the back with a handle in front, that wouldn't affect the size. A PL prime lens could weigh as much as the camera, so everything is going to be front heavy. An alternative could be the RED Epic's double handed DSLR type arrangement, with a LCD screen for framing,.
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Old November 16th, 2010, 09:00 PM   #89
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Tomorrow!! So exciting!
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Old November 16th, 2010, 09:19 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale View Post
I feel its a matter of having the viewfinder at the front rather than the back with a handle in front, that wouldn't affect the size. A PL prime lens could weigh as much as the camera, so everything is going to be front heavy. An alternative could be the RED Epic's double handed DSLR type arrangement, with a LCD screen for framing,.
I think it would be interesting to mold a removable hard plastic flange to the LCD and use my EX3 viewfinder. That would be interesting. The other way is to get a DSLR/Hoodman viewfinder for the LCD. I don't care for the back viewfinder either.
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