Sony F3 - Things I really hope Sony change!

Giuseppe Pugliese · November 30th, 2010, 04:43 AM

I know this is for what we want to have changed but.... Anyone know if they have a 2.35:1 cropping markers? These are super important and is so easy to implement it would be a REAL let down if they didn't have that option

Andy Shipsides · November 30th, 2010, 07:43 AM

Yes it does have 2.35 crop markers. I tested it for this just the other day.

Andy

Andy Shipsides · November 30th, 2010, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Grant

Seeing as how no one has really gotten their head around this...

No real problem with the single or double 1/4" screws that go into the plate on the EX1/3. The problem is how the plate is held onto the rest of the camera. All that holds that plate to the camera chassis is 4x 2mm screws and it is these that can tear out of the pressed metal chassis.

The plate on the F3 is similar to the double 1/4" plate on the EX1R. A big difference though it that is attached directly the the metal frame of the camera, Sony addressed this need specifically because of problems in the past. It is still attached with small screws, but the frame is stronger at that position now. They also have an additional 1/4" thread on the bottom -towered the back of the camera - which could be used for additional security. It is oddly placed, but I can see some custom riser popping up in the future.

Alister Chapman · November 30th, 2010, 04:31 PM

The F3 has colour peaking, just like the EX1/EX3.

Andy: will we meet tomorrow when I bring over the 3D rig?

Leonard Levy · November 30th, 2010, 08:56 PM

Thanks Alister That's reassuring. Someone else on DVInfo.net said no color peaking or expanded focus button.
I'm glad to see it also has internal ND filters - another big DSLR hassle solved.

Is there a waveform or vectorscope available in the camera like there is the Panasonics these days?

Well I just got on the waiting list with my dealer - sounds like an absolutely killer product.

Bob Grant · December 2nd, 2010, 07:33 AM

From the Sydney launch last night.

Different LUTs can be applied to the SDI output compared to what the camera records?
The camera has the standard Sony "700" connector.
There's a connector to fully sync two F3s for shooting 3D.

From the chat after the screening of Compulsion: The EVF is very usefull, using it frees up the monitor for the director to look at. Low power consumption means you can go for hours without changing batteries. It is curious how the Director and DP who come from a film / high end digital background find what we've taken for granted as something quite remarkable in a camera. Pretty well everything else they were excited about has either been mentioned here or is just taken for granted by most of us.

The only thing that caught me out watching Compulsion on the big screen was it looked too soft. Turns out almost every shot was overcranked so the whole thing was shot in 720p. At least no one can accuse Sony of staging that shoot :)

Erik Phairas · December 28th, 2010, 11:05 PM

This video was posted in the other thread but I have something to say.

Watching this, man just look at that poor guy struggle to find some way to hold it. This thing weighs more than an EX3, it will have huge PL glass hanging off the front. WHY did Sony give this the same form factor as a handy cam?

Did they do this on purpose? Possibly so when they release one with a proper form factor people who love the images from the F3 will jump on the F5? I wish they would at least explain what they had in mind when they designed it. Sorry, just thinking out loud.

Same thing with the 50mbps 4:2:2. just odd to leave it out. I just get the horrible feeling they know exactly what they are doing ha ha. I'll take two. :)

Alister Chapman · December 29th, 2010, 03:27 AM

Yes and the camera in the video is fitted with a very heavy follow focus, steel rails and a large Arri type 19mm base plate and riser. Of course it's awkward to hold.

Do remember that stripped down and with the lightweight Sony PL lenses it is not that much heavier than an EX3. I'm not saying that it's ideal, but what form factor would have been? I regard it as a mini F35, which is also neither truly hand held nor shoulder mount. I don't think it's any worse than the Panasonic AF100 and it's got to be easier to use than a DSLR. Shoulder mount would be too bulky for many people, especially if they are adding external recorders and other accessories.
Could it be smaller? Perhaps, but then I'm sure there would be complaints of it being too small and fiddly for serious productions.

My biggest gripe is with the tripod mount, which could very easily of been much better.

Mike Marriage · December 29th, 2010, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

I'm not saying that it's ideal, but what form factor would have been?

I think JVC currently has the most ergonomic designs with the small shoulder mount HD100/200 and HM700 lines. Due to the varying weight of PL glass, the battery mount should be on rods at the back which can slide in and out, just like how we adjust for balance on a Steadicam. It can then be compact when needed but also balance on the shoulder. This would add to the cost but no more so than all the add-ons which will be required to make the camera work off a tripod.

Agreed on the tripod mount. Sony told me that because of the plastic construction, they didn't want to over-spec the tripod mount as it would be stronger than the camera body itself. IMO it is best to design both to be strong enough to not break at all!

Brian Drysdale · December 29th, 2010, 04:08 AM

The on shoulder position that they played with in the video seemed the most natural for hand held with these lenses. Having additional on board accesories/recordors will make this even more appropriate. I expect some one will supply something that will allow for this.

15mm rods are rather better for hand held, but I suspect they were just testing rigs for a short wide zoom

Alister Chapman · December 29th, 2010, 10:13 AM

But a shoulder mount camera is difficult to use any way other than shoulder mounted or tripod mounted because of the length.

What I really don't understand about the base is why the 1/4" thread at the rear is off center. It would be so much more useful if it was inline with the others.

What the design does do is leave the door wide open for 3rd party adapters.

Brian Drysdale · December 29th, 2010, 11:12 AM

The camera doesn't really need to be longer, just a viewing system at the front so that the face is approx level with the front of the camera. The Aaton 16mm camera's V/F more or less gives this, as does the JVC GY HD100 or 200.

The JVC cameras can be used in loads of hand held positions using the side LCD rather than the V/F.

Thierry Humeau · December 29th, 2010, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

Yes and the camera in the video is fitted with a very heavy follow focus, steel rails and a large Arri type 19mm base plate and riser. Of course it's awkward to hold.

Do remember that stripped down and with the lightweight Sony PL lenses it is not that much heavier than an EX3. I'm not saying that it's ideal, but what form factor would have been? I regard it as a mini F35, which is also neither truly hand held nor shoulder mount. I don't think it's any worse than the Panasonic AF100 and it's got to be easier to use than a DSLR. Shoulder mount would be too bulky for many people, especially if they are adding external recorders and other accessories.
Could it be smaller? Perhaps, but then I'm sure there would be complaints of it being too small and fiddly for serious productions.

My biggest gripe is with the tripod mount, which could very easily of been much better.

Actually, the guts of the F3 in a PMW-500 body would make a perfect and well balanced shoulder Super 35 camera. With it's dual channel wireless slot, V-mount battery and nice side mounted viewfinder options, it would make for a far less bulky camera than a fully rigged F3.

Thierry

Charles Papert · December 29th, 2010, 11:52 AM

Obviously there will be a need for either a Sony or third party standard viewfinder--the flip-out screen is not an ideal setup for serious production work. Being able to put your eye up to a finder in daylight is much preferred to the washed-out image from a flip-out.

True enough about the F35 not being ideal for handheld either--without the deck on the back it's punishingly front-heavy. It took me hours of prep to configure this beast:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/hd-uhd-2...xperience.html

Ron Wilk · December 29th, 2010, 02:19 PM

Hello,
I've been following the various posts regarding the soon to be available F3 and one question lingers in my mind, relating specifically to the attached VF. Therefore, for those of you who have had an up-close and personal encounter with the F3, is the attached VF adequate for accurate focus? I'd hate to disturb what already appears to be an awkward, handhold-able device with the added weight and bulk of an onboard monitor (i.e. Marshall).
Thank you in advance.

November 30th, 2010, 07:43 AM	#32
Andy Shipsides Sponsor: Abel CineTech Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New York, NY Posts: 361	Yes it does have 2.35 crop markers. I tested it for this just the other day. Andy __________________ Andy Shipsides -Camera Technology Specialist AbelCineTech, New York - Visit our Blog - http://blog.abelcine.com

November 30th, 2010, 04:31 PM	#34
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	The F3 has colour peaking, just like the EX1/EX3. Andy: will we meet tomorrow when I bring over the 3D rig? __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

December 28th, 2010, 11:05 PM	#37
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	This video was posted in the other thread but I have something to say. Watching this, man just look at that poor guy struggle to find some way to hold it. This thing weighs more than an EX3, it will have huge PL glass hanging off the front. WHY did Sony give this the same form factor as a handy cam? Did they do this on purpose? Possibly so when they release one with a proper form factor people who love the images from the F3 will jump on the F5? I wish they would at least explain what they had in mind when they designed it. Sorry, just thinking out loud. Same thing with the 50mbps 4:2:2. just odd to leave it out. I just get the horrible feeling they know exactly what they are doing ha ha. I'll take two. :) Sony F-3 lens trials at Panavision on Vimeo __________________ EX3, Q6600 Quad core PC - Vista 64, Vegas 8.1 64bit, SR11 b-cam

December 29th, 2010, 03:27 AM	#38
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Yes and the camera in the video is fitted with a very heavy follow focus, steel rails and a large Arri type 19mm base plate and riser. Of course it's awkward to hold. Do remember that stripped down and with the lightweight Sony PL lenses it is not that much heavier than an EX3. I'm not saying that it's ideal, but what form factor would have been? I regard it as a mini F35, which is also neither truly hand held nor shoulder mount. I don't think it's any worse than the Panasonic AF100 and it's got to be easier to use than a DSLR. Shoulder mount would be too bulky for many people, especially if they are adding external recorders and other accessories. Could it be smaller? Perhaps, but then I'm sure there would be complaints of it being too small and fiddly for serious productions. My biggest gripe is with the tripod mount, which could very easily of been much better. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

December 29th, 2010, 10:13 AM	#41
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	But a shoulder mount camera is difficult to use any way other than shoulder mounted or tripod mounted because of the length. What I really don't understand about the base is why the 1/4" thread at the rear is off center. It would be so much more useful if it was inline with the others. What the design does do is leave the door wide open for 3rd party adapters. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

November 30th, 2010, 04:43 AM	#31
Giuseppe Pugliese Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York Posts: 392	I know this is for what we want to have changed but.... Anyone know if they have a 2.35:1 cropping markers? These are super important and is so easy to implement it would be a REAL let down if they didn't have that option

November 30th, 2010, 08:56 PM	#35
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Thanks Alister That's reassuring. Someone else on DVInfo.net said no color peaking or expanded focus button. I'm glad to see it also has internal ND filters - another big DSLR hassle solved. Is there a waveform or vectorscope available in the camera like there is the Panasonics these days? Well I just got on the waiting list with my dealer - sounds like an absolutely killer product.

December 2nd, 2010, 07:33 AM	#36
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	From the Sydney launch last night. Different LUTs can be applied to the SDI output compared to what the camera records? The camera has the standard Sony "700" connector. There's a connector to fully sync two F3s for shooting 3D. From the chat after the screening of Compulsion: The EVF is very usefull, using it frees up the monitor for the director to look at. Low power consumption means you can go for hours without changing batteries. It is curious how the Director and DP who come from a film / high end digital background find what we've taken for granted as something quite remarkable in a camera. Pretty well everything else they were excited about has either been mentioned here or is just taken for granted by most of us. The only thing that caught me out watching Compulsion on the big screen was it looked too soft. Turns out almost every shot was overcranked so the whole thing was shot in 720p. At least no one can accuse Sony of staging that shoot :)

December 29th, 2010, 04:08 AM	#40
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	The on shoulder position that they played with in the video seemed the most natural for hand held with these lenses. Having additional on board accesories/recordors will make this even more appropriate. I expect some one will supply something that will allow for this. 15mm rods are rather better for hand held, but I suspect they were just testing rigs for a short wide zoom

December 29th, 2010, 11:12 AM	#42
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	The camera doesn't really need to be longer, just a viewing system at the front so that the face is approx level with the front of the camera. The Aaton 16mm camera's V/F more or less gives this, as does the JVC GY HD100 or 200. The JVC cameras can be used in loads of hand held positions using the side LCD rather than the V/F.

December 29th, 2010, 11:52 AM	#44
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Obviously there will be a need for either a Sony or third party standard viewfinder--the flip-out screen is not an ideal setup for serious production work. Being able to put your eye up to a finder in daylight is much preferred to the washed-out image from a flip-out. True enough about the F35 not being ideal for handheld either--without the deck on the back it's punishingly front-heavy. It took me hours of prep to configure this beast: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/hd-uhd-2...xperience.html __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

December 29th, 2010, 02:19 PM	#45
Ron Wilk Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Parkland Florida Posts: 407	F3 viewfinder ... adequate? Hello, I've been following the various posts regarding the soon to be available F3 and one question lingers in my mind, relating specifically to the attached VF. Therefore, for those of you who have had an up-close and personal encounter with the F3, is the attached VF adequate for accurate focus? I'd hate to disturb what already appears to be an awkward, handhold-able device with the added weight and bulk of an onboard monitor (i.e. Marshall). Thank you in advance.