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Sony XDCAM PMW-F3 CineAlta
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Old March 4th, 2011, 03:56 AM   #16
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

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Originally Posted by Ryan Koo View Post
Maybe I'm getting confused, but the CP2s are full frame, so there's a crop factor, right? Are the Sonys any different?
Focal length doesn't change, if the Sony lenses can cover the full frame 35mm frame is another matter.

Crop factor is just a bit of mental arithmetic, so you can obtain the equivalent angle of view. It's something you stop doing once you get used to shooting with a particular sensor size or film gauge, you just automatically use the suitable focal length lens.
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Old March 4th, 2011, 06:23 AM   #17
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

If Sony had done a 24, 35 and 50 I would have been much more interested but 35mm just isn't all that wide on a S35 sensor. So far I'm getting great results with my Nikon fit DSLR lenses, a mix of primes and zooms.

I'll hire in PL glass when I need it, there's plenty out there.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 08:20 AM   #18
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

check out the video of the Arri Ultra Primes, Sony PLs, and Zeiss CP1
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To my eyes, I would prefer the Zeiss CP1...
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Old March 5th, 2011, 08:59 AM   #19
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

An important element of this test of the three lenses is to look at the color of her jacket. The CP1 has the least accurate rendition. Knowing Ultra Primes and their almost clinical accuracy, the color shift on both the Sony lenses and CP's is significant.

This would be a HUGE issue on a fashion shoot, or product shoot, if the company signature colors arent accurate, or the dress is "army green" instead of "fern green". This is good information to know.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 09:05 AM   #20
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

Great point. It looks like a white balance needed to be done before shooting with the CP's. It's funny how we like warm images, even if they are not accurate.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 09:11 AM   #21
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

Coming from a guys who has cookes. The lenses known for warm images.... Interestingly enough, cooke designs the lenses to accentuate the warmth in Skin tone colors only. It leaves the blues/greens alone...

So what you would get is the warmth we like in skintones, and the accuracy everywhere else. Unless the model is wearing a skin tone Camel jacket, then it may also be "wrong".
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Old March 5th, 2011, 09:35 AM   #22
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

Nah, look at the tiers and the trash bags.

I think he probably WB'd for the Ultra or kit lens and didn't rebalance.
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Last edited by Peter Moretti; March 6th, 2011 at 07:59 AM.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 11:39 AM   #23
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

Despite what Timur has said, that photo of the Zeiss CP1 is a really compelling argument to go Zeiss. Wow. Thanks for that David.

EDIT:

Just watched the video. Holy moley! Zeiss all the way.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 12:21 PM   #24
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

I mean its not a knock against the CP's. I would use em in a heartbeat. its just a issue to be aware of.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 04:04 PM   #25
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

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Zeiss all the way.
Funny, I thought just the opposite -- the Ultras look beautiful to me. Suppose it's all a matter of personal preference...
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Old March 5th, 2011, 08:12 PM   #26
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

I like the test, the Sony flared pretty badly in 50mm mode.

I'm a bit annoyed by the camera's propensity towards green like you see in these shots, so today with a DIT friend we set out to fix this. It's pretty simple. In Picture Profile, go to White/Offset A & White/Offset B and kick them each up to +2 or +3. If you look at AWB on a scope you can see that Sony has kicked up the Red a little bit higher than the Green and it shows as a more natural color range. In A & B the Green is dominant.

Doing the above will move your non-Presets A & B to more of that AWB setting. It does affect the overall matrix so take a look at that before you exit out to make sure you are near or at the vector boxes.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 06:49 AM   #27
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

You should also try the FL-Light matrix which includes a lot of -G. I'm still playing with the Matrix, like most current Sony cameras it is too Green/Yellow IMHO. The FL-Light matrix has a quite nice look under daylight.

Still tweaking though.

Sorry but I don't buy in to the thought of any lens manufacturer deliberately adding colour shifts into their lenses. Any such shifts will only make adding filtration or getting accurate colours harder. What happens when you want to create a cool or cold look? You must add additional filtration or post correction to first eliminate the shift in the lens. Sure, one manufacturer may use different glass and that may impart a colour shift, but surely the holy grail of lens manufacture is to have a lens that does not add any colour cast or tonal shift?
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Old March 6th, 2011, 03:56 PM   #28
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

I also preferred the Ultra Primes, but honestly, none stood out as image killers, or so much better I had to have it.

That brings cost into the decision. The ARRI 32mm lists for over $12K. You get THREE Sony's for half of that. Plastic or not, I would have to go with Sony.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 10:13 PM   #29
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

I don't think youre supposed to buy Ultra Primes for personal use. They are a rental house Item.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 07:48 AM   #30
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Re: Sony Kit lenses vs still or Red lenses?

I am hoping that next camera purchase is good enough to produce content of sufficient technical quality to enable theatrical release. From what I have seen on Vimeo, the F3 and Sony primes are adequate. If my story, acting, and other elements are as good as the images the F3 produces, I think the audience will very much enjoy the experience.

IMHO, I would rather invest in gear than in a rental company. I know others feel differently and don't want to get saddled with a 'horse' that is obsolete in three years. It's another discussion, but what is/has turned is the camera and recorders are becoming less expensive. It would appear that most everything else is either holding its price or going up (good lens, tripod, rail system, etc.) So, maybe that is where the investment should go and the camera is what should be rented.
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