F3 SDI/Monitor/HD-SDi 8-bit vs. 10-bit at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony Digital Cinema Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM PMW-F3 CineAlta

Sony XDCAM PMW-F3 CineAlta
HD recording with a Super35 CMOS Sensor.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 15th, 2011, 01:42 AM   #1
New Boot
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 23
F3 SDI/Monitor/HD-SDi 8-bit vs. 10-bit

Hey guys,

I've got a few questions in regards to the F3's SDI ports. We've got two HD SDI (A & B), one SDI, as well as one Monitor SDI port on the F3. All of them are capable of outputting HD (at least that's what I understand).

But do they all output 10-Bit 422? Or are some of them limited to 8-Bit 420? I am currently running an AJA Ki Pro Mini on the SDI out and am not getting much better results when color correcting the footage compared to the internal 420 coded recorded on an SxS. The footage seems to fall appart around the same point. This makes me wonder if I'm truly recording 10-Bit.

I tried connecting the Aja to the HD-SDI (A) port, however, I'm not even getting a signal on those. Are they not enabled yet? I'm recording @ 23.976.

I understand that 444 will be enabled via Dual-SDI (A & B) in April. Until then, which SDI port is best used for recording? Which one for monitoring? Are there any differences between HD-SDI (A or B), SDI, and Monitor?

Any thoughts/advise on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Philipp


EDIT:
This (from Sony PMW-F3) confused me even more:

"The PMW-F3 comesequipped with a wide rangeof interfaces optimized for avariety of operational needs,broad interoperability, andflexible workflow. These include an HD-SDI output and, in E-to-E mode, an uncompressed 4:2:2 10-bitsignal can be output from the connector."

What is "E-to-E" mode?

Last edited by Philipp Eierund; March 15th, 2011 at 02:15 AM.
Philipp Eierund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2011, 03:35 AM   #2
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,100
Re: F3 SDI/Monitor/HD-SDi 8-bit vs. 10-bit

"E-to-E" mode is old school Sony-speak for electronic pass through. In other words, on a camera, when the camera is outputting a live image, as opposed to being in tape playback mode.
__________________
My Work: nateweaver.net
Nate Weaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2011, 07:37 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 975
Re: F3 SDI/Monitor/HD-SDi 8-bit vs. 10-bit

Philip,

Apparently there is a way to use the dual link HD-SDI ports on the camera without the software upgrade. The channels right now are half of a 3G signal, so 1.5G data rate per port. Someone did report being able to use it with some menu configuration but to eliminate issues you should use the standard HD-SDI port.

The AJA Ki Pro Mini has to be configured via the the ethernet port using their web app on a computer or laptop. Make sure you have the framerate and PSF setting (if applicable) properly set for the frame rate you have chosen in camera.

If you are not completely sure you really should be posting up in the AJA Ki Pro Mini forum thread on DVinfo that can be found in the Ki Pro forum. Jon Thorn from AJA can address your questions with the authority and knowledge you need.

Here is the AJA Ki Pro Mini thread mentioned above:

Aja Mini KiPro
Andrew Stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2011, 07:49 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rancho Santa Margarita
Posts: 590
Re: F3 SDI/Monitor/HD-SDi 8-bit vs. 10-bit

If your F3 does not have the firmware upgrade, use the SDI port. It is indeed 10bit 4:2:2. You can use the dual link SDI to record 1080/60p if you like. Not with your Aja though. That won't do it.
Aaron Newsome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2011, 11:06 AM   #5
New Boot
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 23
Re: F3 SDI/Monitor/HD-SDi 8-bit vs. 10-bit

Great, thank you guys. Just wanted to confirm that the standard SDI out is indeed 422. How about that monitor out? According to the Sony manual it's an HD-Y port. Unfortunately, I don't deem to be able to find any info on HD-Y either. :/
Philipp Eierund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2011, 01:02 PM   #6
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,100
Re: F3 SDI/Monitor/HD-SDi 8-bit vs. 10-bit

HD-Y means the Y part of an analog component trio.

So you plug that into the "Y" jack of a monitor that can accept an analog component HD signal, and you'll get an HD picture in black and white.
__________________
My Work: nateweaver.net
Nate Weaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2011, 09:10 PM   #7
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 2,484
Re: F3 SDI/Monitor/HD-SDi 8-bit vs. 10-bit

I have been able to connect the HD-Y output of the F3 into my F800, and then view the F3 picture in my F800's viewfinder when I press the LENS RETURN button. Great for checking framing on a two-camera shoot.
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2011, 06:52 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 210
Re: F3 SDI/Monitor/HD-SDi 8-bit vs. 10-bit

So, if I understand, with the basic F3 (without upgrade) :

- you can't use both HD SDI monitor AND HDMI at the same time
- you can't use the dual (A-B) HD-SDI outputs as one or two single HD-SDI plugs
- you can't use the dual (A-B) HD-SDI output in 3G (444 RGB) mode (you need the coming upgrade to do so)
- you can use the dual (A-B) HD-SDI output in 1.5G mode, which is a single 422 10 bits output exactly the same as the monitor HD-SDI output

So, without the upgrade, you can only use one HD-SDI output to plug (chain) your monitor and your external recorder (ki-pro, nanoflash...). So, you can't output the monitor informations on them.
You also can't use an external (HDMI) viewfinder at the same time (excpet if your ki-pro can convert the HD-SDI signal back to HDMI...)

Can anybody ask Sony to make the A/B HD-SDI output availlable as single HD-SDI outputs, giving a total of 2 recording outputs and one monitoring output with on screen informations ?

Please, people who have a F3, confirm all that :)

Regards,

Prune
__________________
DoP, Video/Camera assistant
http://www.lecentre.net/blog
Sebastien Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22nd, 2011, 04:12 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 975
Re: F3 SDI/Monitor/HD-SDi 8-bit vs. 10-bit

Resurrecting this old thread...

I just tried to hook up my Marshall 3G capable monitor to the A port of the 3G SDI port set on the back. Had a look through the menus to see if there is something I have to do to turn on these ports but cannot find it.

Can someone give me some guidance?
Andrew Stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22nd, 2011, 04:23 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 975
Re: F3 SDI/Monitor/HD-SDi 8-bit vs. 10-bit

Figured it out... Changed the frame rate to 1920... 59.94i and, of course, the option to turn on 1.5G came up.

I generally shoot progressive so it didn't occur to me at the time.
Andrew Stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24th, 2011, 04:14 AM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 392
Re: F3 SDI/Monitor/HD-SDi 8-bit vs. 10-bit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp Eierund View Post

But do they all output 10-Bit 422? Or are some of them limited to 8-Bit 420? I am currently running an AJA Ki Pro Mini on the SDI out and am not getting much better results when color correcting the footage compared to the internal 420 coded recorded on an SxS. The footage seems to fall appart around the same point. This makes me wonder if I'm truly recording 10-Bit.
Make sure your AJA is set to record at 10bit and not 8bit. The different when working with color will be greatly different with 10 vs 8 rather than the 420 vs 422. 8bit 422 will not hold up that well in color work vs 10bit 422.
Giuseppe Pugliese is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony Digital Cinema Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM PMW-F3 CineAlta

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:30 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network