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Sony XDCAM PMW-F3 CineAlta
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Old March 21st, 2011, 04:38 PM   #1
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Tests on F3

Any reaction from you guys who have the F3 to the ProVideo coalition tests:

ProVideo Coalition.com: Camera Log by Adam Wilt | Founder | Pro Cameras, HDV Camera, HD Camera, Sony, Panasonic, JVC, RED, Video Camera Reviews

They found lots of aliasing at high frequencies. Also still plenty of Far Red contamination.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 05:20 PM   #2
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re: Tests on F3

its accurate however the aliasing is not an issue in the real world. It occurs on +1000 line repeating patters. That is a very difficult situation to find in nature. (I can barely think of any situations. where it would crop up other than shooting fine line ink drawings drawings for a Art Documentary, for example) Unlike a DSLR that begins color aliasing at +300 lines, very easily occurring in the real world. ( combed hair, herring bone jackets, city land scapes, bricks, tiles, straight lines and skin in a medium close up.)

Alistair chapman got a brick wall to alias on an F3, but since hasn't been able to reproduce it. must have been a fluke perfect storm scenario, between 420 codec, optical pattern width, and mix of colors.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 08:49 PM   #3
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re: Tests on F3

I agree with Timur, reproducing this kind of moiré patern in a real life scenario is almost impossible. The reviewer(s) failed however to point out more serious issues with the AF100 which have been very well documented by BBC's camera guru, Alan Roberts.

1. The AF100 does not perform particalarly well in HD (ouch!)
2. This camera will not necessarily always deliver short depth of field, large aperture lenses must be used to achieve that. He is referring here to DOF being the same at comparable focal lengths between an AF100 at F2.8 and a 1/2" camera (EX1 or 3) at full aperture (F1.6).

Read the full report here:

http://thebrownings.name/WHP034/pdf/...onic_AF101.pdf

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Old March 22nd, 2011, 02:42 AM   #4
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re: Tests on F3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thierry Humeau View Post
2. This camera will not necessarily always deliver short depth of field, large aperture lenses must be used to achieve that.
Thierry, is there a benchmark for large aperture lenses that will work with the camera (AF100) under most circumstances?
Would old photographic lenses from f2 to f1.4 do the job, or are we talking high speed cine primes or something?
Sorry to go off topic.
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 02:49 AM   #5
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re: Tests on F3

I think im the only person that actually likes the AF100..... lol.

I think its a great cam. i like its resolution. its soft but sharp, organic even.


This is the ungraded AVCcam footage. I think it looks good.
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 04:59 AM   #6
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re: Tests on F3

Did you buy an AF100 also Timur?

By the way what do you mean by "organic". What large sensor cam isn't "organic"?
BTW I just bought Wayne's follow focus on your rec. I'm trusting you man!

Need a mattebox that takes vertical 4 x 5.6 grads though - looking like the Petroff.
Just got 28 thru 85 Zeiss ZF's and backing it up with 3 Nikon Zooms and a Tokina -11-16.
I think even an 18-200 Nikon for running around.

If my camera ever shows up I'll be ready. All I need is some work.

Lenny
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 08:00 AM   #7
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re: Tests on F3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Thierry, is there a benchmark for large aperture lenses that will work with the camera (AF100) under most circumstances?
Would old photographic lenses from f2 to f1.4 do the job, or are we talking high speed cine primes or something?
Sorry to go off topic.
I have not looked much into lenses availability for the AF100 but my understanding is that there are very few fast lenses available, especially on the wide end.

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Old March 22nd, 2011, 08:09 AM   #8
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re: Tests on F3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thierry Humeau View Post
2. This camera will not necessarily always deliver short depth of field, large aperture lenses must be used to achieve that. He is referring here to DOF being the same at comparable focal lengths between an AF100 at F2.8 and a 1/2" camera (EX1 or 3) at full aperture (F1.6).
AF100 seems a little off topic in this forum, but Alan Robert's statement about a 1.5 stop difference in DOF between 1/2" and the AF100 does not sound right to me. Isn't it closer to 2.5-3 stops?

17.8mm / 6.97mm = 2.5x "crop factor" = >2.5 stop difference
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 11:50 PM   #9
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Re: Tests on F3

I have seen the F3 aliasing on another shot, some mesh backed chairs. But it only occurred on one chair out of a whole room full when that chair was in pin sharp focus. I'm not particularly concerned about it as it requires a very high frequency repeating pattern that's in crisp focus, unlike my Canon DSLR which will aliase on just about any fixed pattern or texture.
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Old March 24th, 2011, 01:24 AM   #10
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Re: Tests on F3

The footage from F3 from Japan looks from bad to ugly in all senses, terrible event, feel really sorry for Japanese people...
pretty bad chroma and highlights clipping, chroma moiré, if we talk about image quality, getting disappointed in the cam. Low light shots still look very good!
(Having AF100 for good light situations and F3 for low light? :)


Has Alan shot any footage, for himself or for the BBC? "Counting pixels" rarely represents real shooting, news, film or television, picture quality from human eye perception view point! Imho footage from AF100 looks more film like!

P.S. Adam Wilt, thank you for the test!
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Old March 24th, 2011, 02:42 AM   #11
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Re: Tests on F3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Kalyan View Post
The footage from F3 from Japan looks from bad to ugly [...]
pretty bad chroma and highlights clipping, chroma moiré, if we talk about image quality, getting disappointed in the cam. Low light shots still look very good!
(Having AF100 for good light situations and F3 for low light?
Allard, while being a talented documentarian, has made some exposure and camera setting choices that are unfortunate if you are trying to judge exposure latitude and overall image quality.

The camera is fine.
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Old March 24th, 2011, 03:07 AM   #12
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Re: Tests on F3

If you're shooting for news, or fast turn around television, you won't be using setting that make the most of the camera's dynamic range, just those settings that allow you to transmit the pictures without any colour correction or grading.
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Old March 24th, 2011, 07:16 AM   #13
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Re: Tests on F3

I would not based F3 image quality jugement on Vimeo videos but here are a few things to take in consideration. Because of his news network (Aljazeera English) requirement, Matt is filming in 50i (interlace) so, you don't see any of the progressive look. In addition, because of the constrain of news gathering and the need to travel light and work quickly, he is using a single lens, a Tamron 18-270mm F3.5/6.3. So shallow DOF and optical quality is quite compromised. I am sure we will see better F3 pics from Matt once he settles down a bit and goes back to production mode. I think his idea was to demonstrate that the F3 is versatile enough to be also used in breaking news. And even at F6.3, those sit downs interviews look pretty nice by news standards....

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Old March 24th, 2011, 12:12 PM   #14
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Re: Tests on F3

We do lots of computer corporate stuff out here in San Francisco. I';m wondering if anyone has checked out aliasing and moire with computer screens or things like closeups of computer chips and boards.

By the way - picking my camera up today!!!! YES
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Old March 29th, 2011, 03:08 AM   #15
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Re: Tests on F3

In one of the tests Adam mentions they're getting 12 stops of dynamic range from the F3. Considering Sony is claiming that S-Log brings gains of "up to 800% increase in dynamic range" or whatever their language was... doesn't this imply that the F3 will get as much as the RED EPIC/ARRI ALEXA? Even if they're referring to the F3's S-Log increase as compared to REC 709 with that figure, the fact that it's already showing 12 stops without S-Log is impressive, right? Haven't heard many people talking about it and am wondering what the expectations are with regards to DR once the $3300 firmware upgrade is applied.
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