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Sony XDCAM PMW-F3 CineAlta
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Old April 12th, 2011, 10:17 AM   #1
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HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

A few of the vendors got their F3's updated at the show and I saw an EVF working with an HDMI input and HDSDI displaying on external monitors simultaneously.

It appears that the upgrade enables both.
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Old April 12th, 2011, 12:33 PM   #2
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Re: HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

I hope so this will work,
another thing is that in the current version the composite output isn't working when filming in HD. Like the EX3 both composite (scaled down) and HD SDI output are working simultaneously, Which is great for having an EVF with camera info.
Let's hope the HDMI can have separate display info, so you can use SDI for recording and HDMI for EVF or monitor.
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Old April 12th, 2011, 02:01 PM   #3
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Re: HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

When you say update do you mean the 444 dual link update or a different (free) firmware update?
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Old April 13th, 2011, 08:55 AM   #4
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Re: HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

Current software as is allows you to have HDMI and SDI both active, use following menu settings:
F3 at Sony NAB booth was using the left dual link BNC port to send SDI to the monitor, while providing a HDMI signal to a Cineroid EVF.
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HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously-f3-menu.jpg  
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Old April 13th, 2011, 11:37 AM   #5
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Re: HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

You should be in interlaced mode to be able to use those outputs.
We need those outputs in progressive mode.
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Old April 13th, 2011, 03:23 PM   #6
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Re: HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

seems like no S-log in 4:2:2 mode...? thats a bummer
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Old April 13th, 2011, 04:28 PM   #7
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Re: HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cahill View Post
Current software as is allows you to have HDMI and SDI both active, use following menu settings:
F3 at Sony NAB booth was using the left dual link BNC port to send SDI to the monitor, while providing a HDMI signal to a Cineroid EVF.
Can you list ALL settings in this part of the menu?
I am trying to set it up and the selected choices from your image are not active.
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Old April 13th, 2011, 09:01 PM   #8
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Re: HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

S-LOG in anything other than full 4:4:4 10 Bit would fall apart in post.
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Old April 13th, 2011, 09:52 PM   #9
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Re: HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

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Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
S-LOG in anything other than full 4:4:4 10 Bit would fall apart in post.
I dont understand that statement... S-Log is a gamma curve, it can be applied to any level of chroma sampling, its just the greater amount of info the more powerful the S-Log curve will be...

an S-Log curve in 10bit 4:2:2 would not "fall apart" it would simply have less chroma sampling, but overall would still provide a greater range of dynamics and deeper curve than the standard...
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Old April 13th, 2011, 10:00 PM   #10
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Re: HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

10 bit, with 1024 steps of luminance is the key factor for S-Log, 4:2:2 colour is fine and used quite a lot already in productions with S-Log.

Also, I haven't tried this, but I'm pretty sure when in dual link mode at least one (maybe both) link is legitimate 4:2:2. So even if it's outputting 4:4:4 dual link, you just connect one link, and you have 4:2:2. This is my understanding of the standard, not practical experience.
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Old April 13th, 2011, 10:15 PM   #11
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Re: HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

Copy all that. Arri Alexa footage in LogC, 10bit ProRes HQ 4:2:2 is amazing, I've done color work on it. Holds together with extreme color tweaking. 4:4:4 is other benefits.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 12:02 PM   #12
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Re: HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

Can we go back t original point of this discussion? I was told by someone (not from Sony) what Bruce said that there was a free firmware upgrade that enabled both HDMI and SDI. I assumed they meant in progressive since this was always available in interlace.

Is this just an urban legend?

It would be great if it were real.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 03:23 PM   #13
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Re: HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Levy View Post
Can we go back t original point of this discussion? I was told by someone (not from Sony) what Bruce said that there was a free firmware upgrade that enabled both HDMI and SDI. I assumed they meant in progressive since this was always available in interlace.

Is this just an urban legend?

It would be great if it were real.
Andy Shipsides told me the same fact-to-face at the Abel booth. Free update coming soon will enable SDI and HDMI.

I will believe him, because the day prior he interacted directly with Sony to get the F3 they had on display upgraded to a beta S-Log firmware, so I'm quite sure he spoke to somebody who would know. I believe the F3 they had with S-Log (the same camera with the blue ET pieces on it), had SDI and HDMI co-existing as well.

Frankly, Andy was be far the most knowledgable person on the F3 I ran into at NAB, and that includes many people in the Sony booth. I know there were some people in Sony booth that knew everything first hand, but those folks were surrounded by show-goers at all times and hard to get time with. I gave up.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 05:29 PM   #14
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Re: HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

Andy is correct, there will be free firmware upgrade available soon that will make the HDMI and SDI connectors hot at the same time.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 08:57 PM   #15
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Re: HDSDI & HDMI working simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Weaver View Post
I will believe him, because the day prior he interacted directly with Sony to get the F3 they had on display upgraded to a beta S-Log firmware, so I'm quite sure he spoke to somebody who would know. I believe the F3 they had with S-Log (the same camera with the blue ET pieces on it), had SDI and HDMI co-existing as well.
That's exactly the camera I saw both working on at Abel's booth. That particular camera had been upgraded by Sony using an SxS card to do it on their setup day. Here is Andy talking about it on camera;
http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/04/14/...-f3-solutions/

Great to hear that getting the two outputs to work simultaneously will be cost free.
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