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Sony XDCAM PMW-F3 CineAlta
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Old February 16th, 2012, 03:51 PM   #1
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Shoulder Mount like this?

Hey there, does anyone have a special tip? im looking for a shoulder support with v-lock exactly like this. the ones i find seem to be around $1500 or more. is there possibly a cheaper solution? thanks in advance.

http://www.videodata.de/shop/images/..._BP6000_03.jpg
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Old February 17th, 2012, 01:12 AM   #2
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Re: Shoulder Mount like this?

Maybe cheaper is a detachable support like the Vocas?
Shoulder support underneath | Vocas Systems
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Old February 17th, 2012, 06:10 PM   #3
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Re: Shoulder Mount like this?

Matthias, as Ron has inferred you will have to go with a different solution if you are looking for something in the sub $1000 range. Any present shoulder mount rails plate that integrates both heel and toe V-lock attachment is well above a thousand dollars. The Vocas shoulder piece is an interesting solution. You may wish to look at Berkey Systems as well. Genus is another company and Zacuto you probably know about.
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Old February 18th, 2012, 04:40 PM   #4
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Re: Shoulder Mount like this?

Just a heads up about the Shape systems - do not buy any used systems because their prior shoulder rigs had many small but significant issues such as improperly drilled and threaded holes and/or wrong sized screws. My local Abel Cine rep told me that he had 4 different customers who had problems with their Shape rigs a couple months ago. However, their new systems have proven to be of better build quality and clearly have gone through more stringent quality checks. Also, another major problem affecting earlier systems is a problem with the handles and buttons breaking, which is apparent when hand holding a rig with enough weight on the handle to cause it to slip out of its 'locked' position. According to my rep, the company is working extremely hard to provide support to anyone with problems; thus, I can honestly recommend their new equipment. Plus, I have used one of their new systems with a F3, Zacuto FF, Sony Prime and O'Connor MB and I really love how easy it is to change the handle position and angle while resting on my shoulder. Their handle system is the best I have used (compared to my personal Zacuto Newsman rig, the O'Connor grips, a Vocas rig and RedRock's shoulder rig).

Another item to be wary of is RedRock Micro - some people have recently learned that RR does NOT make their equipment to industry standards which causes problems when using a F3 and Sony Prime lenses. For example, the RR FollowFocus and Mattebox do NOT work with the F3, Sony Prime lenses and Zacuto baseplate (or any baseplate built around industry standards).
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Old February 21st, 2012, 08:08 AM   #5
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Re: Shoulder Mount like this?

My solution is stupidly simple, cheap, fast and works.

What I wanted was a way to mount on sticks, steadicam and shoulder in a fast and easy manner, but not have the camera up too high and not have to unscrew anything.

I bought three Manfroto 357 mounting plates and bases for about $50 each.
Manfrotto 357 Pro Rapid Connect Adaptr Assembly | eBay

I put the plate on the bottom of camera base plate, and a base on each of the tripod and steadicam.

I bent a 3" wide piece of aluminum to fit my shoulder and used two of the mounting screws to mount the bent metal to one base. I put a black gel and foam filled seat belt pad over the curved metal with a slot for the area where curved metal is against the base plate. It covers the top and bottom of the metal and attaches with velcro.

Now the camera slides right onto the tripod, steadicam and shoulder mount in about 10 seconds. Its cheap, removable, low and works well. It must look fairly professional as people ask where I bought it.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 11:30 AM   #6
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Re: Shoulder Mount like this?

Another item to be wary of is RedRock Micro - some people have recently learned that RR does NOT make their equipment to industry standards which causes problems when using a F3 and Sony Prime lenses. For example, the RR FollowFocus and Mattebox do NOT work with the F3, Sony Prime lenses and Zacuto baseplate (or any baseplate built around industry standards).[/QUOTE]

What problems exactly.
I own two F3's with the exact config above and all is well.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 02:47 PM   #7
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Re: Shoulder Mount like this?

Steve,

Our gear is in fact industry standard. Our shoulder pad attaches to any industry standard 15mm 60mm spaced rail set, as do all of our accessories (unless ordered in another standard).

Our matte box works great on the F3, and I've used it in all the standards 19mm, 15mm Studio, and 15mm L/W and they've all worked. Standard, our matte box is 138mm, and you can even order a larger 142mm version for use with certain lenses.

I'm curious as to what issues you've run into with our gear not being compatible with the F3? Take a look at this story on Ghosts of Goodnight Lane, where they used our microMatteBox and microFollowFocus systems.

Cheers,

Loren Simons
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Old February 27th, 2012, 03:43 PM   #8
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Re: Shoulder Mount like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren Simons View Post
Steve,

Our gear is in fact industry standard. Our shoulder pad attaches to any industry standard 15mm 60mm spaced rail set, as do all of our accessories (unless ordered in another standard).

Our matte box works great on the F3, and I've used it in all the standards 19mm, 15mm Studio, and 15mm L/W and they've all worked. Standard, our matte box is 138mm, and you can even order a larger 142mm version for use with certain lenses.

I'm curious as to what issues you've run into with our gear not being compatible with the F3? Take a look at this story on Ghosts of Goodnight Lane, where they used our microMatteBox and microFollowFocus systems.

Cheers,

Loren Simons
Hi Loren,

As stated in this thread http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...zacuto-bp.html some people have mentioned that the RR follow focus does not work with the F3 Prime lenses and 15mm rods in addition to the Matebox not working with the F3 which requires an adapter to retrofit the MB to 15mm rods. Nate Weaver states what the industry standards are for 15mm rods & lenses, and the RR FF and MB do not work with standard 15mm rods and the F3.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 06:15 PM   #9
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Re: Shoulder Mount like this?

Steve,

I see how one could get that from the thread, and I'm still not sure about the modification Greg was referring to (I've sent it along to our support team to find out exactly what he was told and sent). However, the problem seems to lie in the fact that the bridge of the microFollowFocus is too high for certain Cine Lenses in a 15mm L/W environment. Starting from the ground up setting any baseplate to be 85mm (center of the lens to center of the rail), and then attaching the matte box, everything would be fine. It is when you attach the follow focus that you run into issues because of the large barrel dimensions of the Sony Primes, and thus people naturally try to lower their rods, which as they said can throw the whole system out of whack. As someone stated in that thread, we have a lower profile clamp that solves this issue, and allows everything to play nicely.

So it seems the issue does not lie in the microMatteBox, which is in fact industry standard 85mm (as I hold it in my hand with Calipers). It is in the original slightly taller bridge in the microFollowFocus system that can bump into those lenses which are just on the edge of compatibility with 15mm L/W standard, for which we've recognized and designed a solution for.

Cheers,

Loren Simons
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Old February 28th, 2012, 01:07 PM   #10
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Re: Shoulder Mount like this?

Yeah, I'd like to clarify.

The Redrock stuff keeps to the standard distances. The issue with the RR FF and the Sony primes is that the Sony primes are awful large to be using with LW15 rods. That's it.

Lightweight, 60mm spaced 15mm rods is a standard that was designed for 16mm cameras. Cameras with smaller diameter lenses, both at the body end and the front element end. It's roots go back to the Arri 16SR and the Aaton LTR, both cameras that made their debut in the 70s.

It's appropriate in a lot of ways for the new wave of small 35mm sensor cameras, but in other ways it's not appropriate (large 35mm lenses interfere).
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Old March 17th, 2012, 11:17 AM   #11
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Re: Shoulder Mount like this?

Everybody Stop right there. I found the solution: The Tilta Baseplate BS-T03 It cost me about 400 bucks and its the perfect solution. I switch to shoulder, to steadycam, to crane in no time, and the weight is always in the center, where its supposed to be. All thats missing now is a Z-Finder EVF with D-Tap.
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Old March 17th, 2012, 11:38 AM   #12
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Re: Shoulder Mount like this?

It's neat, but doesn't it make the lens height very high when on the shoulder?
(unless you're very short of course!)
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Old March 17th, 2012, 12:04 PM   #13
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Re: Shoulder Mount like this?

Were you able to get two screws into the base of the camera?
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Old March 17th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #14
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Re: Shoulder Mount like this?

That's an impressive design for the money. The two things I would say that despite the three or four inches of fore-aft travel that was included, the weight will only stay centered if one's lenses are all roughly the same weight, otherwise the CG will migrate forward with a heavy lens beyond the system's capability to counter-balance. The rod holders front and back look to allow little to no ability to slide into the base, meaning that when lens swaps occur from short primes to long zooms, this will require swapping out the rods as well which is a much lengthier rebuild.

That may not be a problem for some, perhaps many users. I know that I prefer the ability to adjust the length of the rods over a good 8" or more to avoid rod swaps, and I don't feel that a cutout is necessary for good handheld operation, just a flat base that allows me to slide the camera fore and aft on the shoulder to find the exact CG (using either a strap-on shoulder pad, or a velcroed one that can be instantly moved to the sweet spot).
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Old March 17th, 2012, 02:34 PM   #15
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Re: Shoulder Mount like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias Sachal View Post
Everybody Stop right there. I found the solution: The Tilta Baseplate BS-T03 It cost me about 400 bucks and its the perfect solution. I switch to shoulder, to steadycam, to crane in no time, and the weight is always in the center, where its supposed to be. All thats missing now is a Z-Finder EVF with D-Tap.
How's the build quality?
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