Picture Profile to match F3 to C300 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony Digital Cinema Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM PMW-F3 CineAlta

Sony XDCAM PMW-F3 CineAlta
HD recording with a Super35 CMOS Sensor.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 1st, 2012, 11:01 AM   #1
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
Picture Profile to match F3 to C300

Here's a picture profile to help match the F3 to a standard C300.

All F3 PP setting standard except:

Matrix ON, Select Cinema, Level -7, R-G 0, R-B +8, G-R +28, G-B -17, B-R+14, B-G +10

HD Detail ON, Level +4, Frequency +20, Crispening -50

Aperture +60

Knee Setting ON, Auto Knee Off, Point 90, Slope +28

Gamma STD 5 (709)

Black -3

Black Gamma -20

It's quite a nice neutral look. I would use this on an F3 anyway, when not trying to match a C300, as a standard setting for direct to air (i.e.. no grading) look. The only change I'd make in that case would be to reduce the Detail Level to -10.
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2012, 03:48 PM   #2
New Boot
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 12
Re: Picture Profile to match F3 to C300

Thanks for posting Alister. Look forward to trying it out.
Kirk Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2012, 02:41 AM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,554
Re: Picture Profile to match F3 to C300

Hi Alister,

How do you go about adjusting the F3's settings to match the C300 (high-end monitor, scopes)?

Thanks
Steve Kalle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2012, 06:33 AM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Westcliff-On-Sea, Essex, England
Posts: 154
Re: Picture Profile to match F3 to C300

Hi Alister

What would your go to camera be between the Canon and the F3? Thinking about switching my F3 over to the Canon for ease of workflow etc. Thanks.
Mark McCarthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2012, 07:50 AM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
Re: Picture Profile to match F3 to C300

For grab and go, the C300 with a Canon 24-70mm f2.8L, but try before you buy, some of the ergonomics are frustrating, for example iris control on the back of the camera or hand grip, so if the camera is on a tripod you have to move a hand from either the lens or pan bar to change exposure. Also the secondary information LCD where you change shutter speed, ISO etc is tucked under the EVF and can't be seen from easily from the side or below. If you have the EVF extended you can't see it from above either. Doh! And as for the LCD screen and XLR adapter, you'll either love it or hate it. It's a great little monitor but the cables that connect it to the camera just get in the way and are ridiculously thick and chunky.

But there's no getting away from the fact that to meet the 50Mb/s rule you don't need an external recorder and the pictures are very nice indeed. With just the camera body and a lens you have a highly portable camera (although you'll need some kind of adapter to plug in an XLR mic as the body only has a 3.5mm jack).

However.... The F3 still IMHO produces a marginally better image and generally I prefer the F3's ergonomics, especially on a tripod or shoulder rig. If you don't need 50Mb/s then the F3 is excellent. If you need high end performance, squeezing every last bit out of the image, the F3 is better than the C300 IMHO, largely down to the 10 bit output and flatter log curve.

So it depends on what you want to do and your shooting style.

If you don't need 50Mb/s then I would probably favour the F3. You have a choice of lens mounts, arguably better iris control, ergonomics more suited to video applications.

If you need 50Mb/s but don't need more than that, the the C300 is the obvious choice. DSLR shooters will I'm sure be very happy with the control layout, video pro's may find it frustrating.

If you need better than 50Mb/s then we come back to the F3 again. After all if your going to add an external recorder, at this level, it should really be a 10 bit one. Plus you have RGB options, LUT's, no need for a funky LCD adapter with unwieldy cables just so you can plug in an XLR mic.

I think the C300 will find a very happy home in many a news, documentary or corporate production company. I have mine for the Storm Chasing and natural extremes that I shoot, where the convenience of no external recorder is wonderful. But I'm absolutely keeping my F3's for commercials, shorts and those productions where an external recorder is not a big deal and image quality is everything. Plus I find the F3 much easier to work with on a tripod or shoulder rig.

If I could only choose one? Right now it would be the F3 as it is more adaptable. You can use different lens mounts, record internally or add a 10 bit 422 or 444 recorder. I can use the F3 to shoot what I am planning on using the C300 for, only with the inconvenience of an external recorder, while if I was asked to shoot a commercial I would really want the 10 bit RGB output of the F3, so the C300 would not be appropriate.

That's just my opinion. Other's will vary. Don't get me wrong the C300 is a great, great camera, but it's not necessarily better than the F3 and the F3 is not necessarily better than the C300. I'm not saying this to hedge my bets or sit on the wall, I say this because that's the way I think it is. Tough choice.
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2012, 10:28 AM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Westcliff-On-Sea, Essex, England
Posts: 154
Re: Picture Profile to match F3 to C300

Many thanks Alister for taking the time to put together such a well thought out reply. Very interesting. Having purchased the S-LOG update only a matter of weeks ago, I haven't had the chance to do much shooting with the F3 and am not totally comfortable as yet with setting exposure for the S-LOG. Once I have 'mastered' this I am sure I'll be more than happy. I had a great picture setting developed on the F3 before I got the update, now I have almost taken a couple of steps back getting to grips with it again.
Mark McCarthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2012, 11:25 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Malibu, CA
Posts: 480
Re: Picture Profile to match F3 to C300

Alister, how does the Canon log compare to F3 S-Log? Have you shot with the Canon log and graded it in 8-bit yet?
Bruce Schultz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2012, 11:56 AM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
Re: Picture Profile to match F3 to C300

Mark: I'm doing a S-Log workshop at ProKit on Tuesday: Prokit video production & broadcast equipment brochure download I'll be spending quite a bit of time on exposure etc.

Bruce: C-Log is similar to S-log, but not quite as aggressive in the highlights so there is a greater degree of black press with C-Log. This means that S-Log holds subtle shadow details better, these can then be pulled out in the grade more effectively. Having said that the 8 bit C-Log grades remarkably well. I think the more contrasty blacks/shadows helps this as you don't generally need to push and pull them quite as hard as you do with S-Log. C-Log has a much higher chroma level and this means that you get into chroma clipping earlier with highly saturated colours, but agin it means less aggressive grading is needed. I think Canon have done a good job with C-log. You get 12 stops or DR but don't need to grade so hard to make it look good, it's a good fit with the 8 bit codec. S-Log is more gradable, but needs 10 bit to get the best from it, so this suits the F3 better.

Steve: I create my custom profiles using good monitors, vector scopes, waveform monitors and the Mk1 eyeball. I'm picking up some new ChromaDuMond charts at NAB so I can improve the accuracy of my profiles.

I've just posted a more in depth review of the C300 on my blog; A Week With The Canon C300. | XDCAM-USER.COM
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2012, 12:57 PM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Westcliff-On-Sea, Essex, England
Posts: 154
Re: Picture Profile to match F3 to C300

Thanks Alister. May take a day out to come along on Tuesday. Best, Mark.
Mark McCarthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2013, 10:13 AM   #10
New Boot
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 22
Re: Picture Profile to match F3 to C300

Hi Alister,

Thanks for creating this profile. On your own site you mention that the picture profile is available for download at an XDCam -user.com forum and provide a link, but I cannot register at XDCam-user forum. I get only a "Temporarily Unavailable" message, and I've been trying for the past week. Is the file available anywhere else?

thanks,

Tom
Thomas Kaufman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2013, 10:02 PM   #11
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
Re: Picture Profile to match F3 to C300

Hi Thomas. Sorry you can't register at the moment, the site has been undergoing a sustained hacking attack from multiple IP adresses for the past couple of weeks so registration has been disabled for the moment. Hopefully I will be able to bring registrations back online soon. The profile on XDCAM-USER.com is the same as the one at the top of this thread.
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony Digital Cinema Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM PMW-F3 CineAlta

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:33 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network