Sony FS7 first impressions at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony Digital Cinema Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM PXW-FS7 / FS5

Sony XDCAM PXW-FS7 / FS5
Super 35 CMOS recording 4K to XQD media cards.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 12th, 2014, 10:28 PM   #1
Austinite
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Austin
Posts: 537
Sony FS7 first impressions

We got our first cameras in last week and have been testing and demoing them. We have sent a camera to a super special person and will be getting a full report back later in the month.

1. Don't break the little clip for the wire wrangling when you put the camera on a tripod. Be aware of front load and back load plates.
2. The mic mount doesn't come off easily. This is trouble for the size of bag you will therefore need for the camera.
3. A 32GB XQD card will be shot up in 6 minutes at 3860 60p. It will be shot up in 15 minuted at 3860 24p.
4. A right eyed and a left eyed person will be comfortable with the EFV. It is flexible.
5. Sony Catalyst does something. Not quite sure what. Clips play in Adobe Premiere CC just fine.
6. Vocas plate is way cool. Looks quite thin. Looking to get one in to try and promote.
7. Met my first A99 owner in the process of promoting this camera... odd but cool...
Phil Goetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2014, 11:59 AM   #2
Austinite
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Austin
Posts: 537
Re: Sony FS7 first impressions

We do not have the kit lens on hand but I am interested in how the iris works. Does it move in 1/3 or 1/2 stop increments or is is smooth / or declicked? In other words does it operate like and ENG lens in terms of being able to adjust iris WHILE shooting and have the image not change in increments?

Sony - FE PZ 28-135mm f/4 G OSS Lens MFR# SELP28135G
The world's first SSM (Super Sonic wave Motor) drive in a cinema lens for quiet zoom and smooth iris control
Phil Goetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2014, 04:06 PM   #3
Space Hipster
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,593
Re: Sony FS7 first impressions

I've found the 18-200 power zoom is very slow zooming. I think it's just the lens, because it was slow when I tried the same lens on an EA50. Let's hope the 28-135 had a more powerful zoom motor.

Otherwise, I really liked the camera. I have no doubt Sony has a big hit on its hands.
Glen Vandermolen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 14th, 2014, 11:04 AM   #4
Austinite
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Austin
Posts: 537
Re: Sony FS7 first impressions

I was talking about aperture not zoom.
Phil Goetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2014, 02:31 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 286
Re: Sony FS7 first impressions

All e-mount lenses I've used have had pretty smooth aperture changes, no steps (or very small)
Dmitri Zigany is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2014, 12:15 PM   #6
Austinite
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Austin
Posts: 537
Re: Sony FS7 first impressions

We got a camera to our client Ed David and he created this video:


The following words were written by Ed David and are in the video description accompanying the vimeo link above. I have cut and pasted them here for convenience (and redundancy).

This is a miracle camera - the features that it has and the ergonomics for such a low price is truly mind blowing. If you don't buy this camera, your mom will. And then she'll laugh at you because you're supposed to know more about cameras than your mom.

The film was fun to make - it was an idea Lily and I had floating in our heads for a while. So many short doc portraits of artists that take themselves very seriously. Not this one. No way.

GEEKY TECH STUFF:
Shot on FS7 to internal media - xqd 32gb card. Camera was donated by Omega Broadcast. Shot s log 3 with s gamut.cine gamma. recorded to avc-intra codec. 4k recording up to 60 fps. for 180 fps stuff - went 1080p same codec avc-intra. Used 2 lenses - leica-r 50mm f1.4 and leica 24mm f2.0 . Set the iso to 1600 and for the 180 fps stuff set to 800 iso. Graded in da vinci resolve with visioncolor impulz lut kodak vision3 50d.fpe. did slight modification to this - nothing that crazy . the goal was speed - to get the pieces out into the world as soon as possible.

The great:
Camera is incredibly ergonomic, small, and intuitive. the viewfinder - the weight - the balance - everything feels great. This camera is nothing short of a miracle for doc work.

the bad:
I couldn't find out if it had a waveform - so I was just protecting for the highlights. the zebra feature doesn't seem intuitive or perfect -hard to see blow out - also hard to make sure it was working okay. hope there is a future firmware upgrade to fix this. there is some jello - not too bad, but not as good as the alexa. Also the menu system is crazy hard to figure out like the f5 and f55

shooting super slo mo had some pretty blocky noise - maybe going to an external recorder will be better. I have so much faith especially seeing fs700 internal slo mo vs fs700 to odyssey 7q slo mo.

but overall - can you really complain with a camera that costs 9k and basically is a hybrid between the sony f5 and f55 that cost 2-3 times as much?

this thing is going to sell like hotcakes - I am going to order one.

ON FS7 vs C300:
it's better than the c300 in that it generates a 10 bit 4:2:2 image internally - has better ergonomics, and the ability to do slo motion. s log 3 is also rated around 13-14 stops of usual dynamic range - the c300 I rate at about 11 stops! 2-3 extra stops in the highlights is very very useful. and it can do 4k - internally - so its better than the c500. and also raw. It blows the c300 to bits.

also highlight handling feels nicer than the c300 by far. this is a beautiful camera. I am ordering a fs7 now after I did this video.
Phil Goetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2014, 02:58 PM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South NJ US
Posts: 138
Re: Sony FS7 first impressions

"Be aware of front load and back load plates" what is a front and back load plate?
Ray Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2014, 04:17 PM   #8
Austinite
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Austin
Posts: 537
Re: Sony FS7 first impressions

The loading on the plate is just how you put the camera on the tripod. Do you approach the tripod from the back and push it in or do you approach the tripod from the front and push the back of the tripod plate into the tripod head. That's it.
Phil Goetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2014, 08:28 PM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South NJ US
Posts: 138
Re: Sony FS7 first impressions

Got it, thanks LOL I already ran into issues with other camera follow focus combos and broke down and bought one that locks in from the top. FYI I already used ARCA plates so I got the Kessler one
Ray Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2014, 08:18 AM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New Orleans, La
Posts: 39
Re: Sony FS7 first impressions

It would be great if there were a way to have the zoom rocker control the iris, thus providing for lovely infinitely variable iris control. A dial can never provide that unless it's spring loaded.

Early reports on the Fs7 are that the dial control of the iris is flawed in that it takes several turns of the dial to effect iris changes. Several turns of the dial just to effect a two stop change...so much so that you can end up shaking the camera from having to dial so much. Some users have gone as far as to say that it is unusable in shot. That is troubling considering that many of us are going to be forced to use Sony Alpha and FE zooms due to budget constraints, zooms that lack an iris ring. ( all of which is pushing me to consider the Nikon version of the Sigma rehouse and other still photography glass that have manual iris on the lens. )

The real solution here is a REAL lens, one with an iris ring on the lens that can be control with your left hand. My shooting method on broadcast glass has always been to control focus with my pinky & ring fingers, zoom with my middle finger, and iris with my "pointer" finger and / or thumb. Or, reaching over the lens to control zoom rocker with middle finger & pointer finger, thumb riding iris, pinky & ring riding focus. These methods free up my left hand to be on the pan bar of the tripod. It's an interesting ballet riding focus, zoom, and iris all with one hand but after a while it becomes second nature and instinctive.
J. David Pope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2014, 05:13 PM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South NJ US
Posts: 138
Re: Sony FS7 first impressions

looks like there are firmware fixes already on the way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by J. David Pope View Post
It would be great if there were a way to have the zoom rocker control the iris, thus providing for lovely infinitely variable iris control. A dial can never provide that unless it's spring loaded.

Early reports on the Fs7 are that the dial control of the iris is flawed in that it takes several turns of the dial to effect iris changes. Several turns of the dial just to effect a two stop change...so much so that you can end up shaking the camera from having to dial so much. Some users have gone as far as to say that it is unusable in shot. That is troubling considering that many of us are going to be forced to use Sony Alpha and FE zooms due to budget constraints, zooms that lack an iris ring. ( all of which is pushing me to consider the Nikon version of the Sigma rehouse and other still photography glass that have manual iris on the lens. )

The real solution here is a REAL lens, one with an iris ring on the lens that can be control with your left hand. My shooting method on broadcast glass has always been to control focus with my pinky & ring fingers, zoom with my middle finger, and iris with my "pointer" finger and / or thumb. Or, reaching over the lens to control zoom rocker with middle finger & pointer finger, thumb riding iris, pinky & ring riding focus. These methods free up my left hand to be on the pan bar of the tripod. It's an interesting ballet riding focus, zoom, and iris all with one hand but after a while it becomes second nature and instinctive.
Ray Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2014, 07:25 AM   #12
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 126
Re: Sony FS7 first impressions

Unbelievable the kit lens (28-135mm) for this camera is actually a 42-202mm lens. Why call it a kit lens if it wasn't designed for this camera at all? Total deal breaker....

Were not putting full frame glass on our aps-c bodies for the obvious reasons, so why Sony calls this a 'kit lens' while it is essentially the same thing as putting full frame glass on aps-c is beyond me.

Give me a real 28-135mm ENG lens (or better: 24-135mm) for this camera and i'll be the first one in line.
Bram Corstjens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2014, 12:19 PM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New Orleans, La
Posts: 39
Re: Sony FS7 first impressions

Bram- You are misunderstanding lens fundamentals, same as I was.

I get your point about the Sony 28-135mm not being wide enough for S35 and I agree. ( the Sony Fs7 is super-35, not APS-C. S35 is 24.9 x 14mm. APS-C is 22.3 x 12.5mm. APS-C is slightly smaller than is S35. )

"a real 28-135mm"- I understand that by "real" you mean a lens that is a 35mm comparable equivalent of 28-135mm on a camera with a S35 sensor. However, even a "real 28-135" only has the field of view of a 28-135mm when it is on a 35mm camera. Place the same lens on a camera with a sensor larger than 35mm and it no longer has a field of view comparable to 28-135 on 35mm. Your "real 28-135mm" would not be a "real 28-135mm" for someone using an IMAX camera.

Maybe someone else can explain this better than I am doing here.

I believe that you are calculating incorrectly. To find the 35mm comparable equivalent on S35 you multiply by 1.39.

So, the Sony 28-135mm has a 35mm comparable equivalent on the Fs7 of 38.92mm to 191.82mm. Not "42-202mm". Still sucky, just not quite as sucky.


You, I, and everyone would love the Sony "kit lens" for the Fs7 to be more along the lines of 18-200mm like the Canon EF 18-200mm. I would also love it if the Sony 28-135mm were mechanical focus and zoom instead of electronic. At least it has an iris ring. I imagine that the "kit lens" would have cost substantially more had Sony designed it with a wider f.o.v. Were the FE servo zoom an 18-105 like the Sony e-mount 18-105 it likely would have cost closer to $10k.

I have resigned myself to the fact that there just isn't a "large sensor" zoom that does everything like there was with 2/3" cameras. There isn't any s35 zoom that can do what the wonderful Fujinon 4.5-54mm f/1.8-2.4 lens with 2x extender and servo zoom could do. That isn't because the lens makers are stubborn or too stupid to realize what we want. It's because of the difficulty in making such a lens. The Cabrio is an engineering marvel. I don't think people appreciate how much of an engineering marvel it is. Even experts in cinema zooms were blown away by what the Cabrio 19-90mm accomplishes for it's size and weight.
J. David Pope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2014, 01:14 PM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 126
Re: Sony FS7 first impressions

Thanks for the explanation. I do know the field of view a lens gives you depends on the sensor size the lens is used with. 1.39 crop factor indeed makes things a little less sucky, but still very sucky. 39mm at the wide end just doesn't cut it.

Technicalities aside, I still think its weird Sony can make a 28-135mm lens for a full frame sensor, but apparently can't make a 20-127mm for the smaller S35 sensor. That's just hard to believe.

And last but not least: considering this is sold as the kit lens for the FS7, isn't it weird it covers full frame 35mm? This means this lens is unnecessary expensive, heavy (and more difficult to make): the exact reason there is a whole separate market for APS-C photo lenses.

I get the impression Sony made this lens for the A7S with it's 35mm sensor and other (future) 35mm DSLR's and just threw it on the FS7 without much afterthought.
Bram Corstjens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2014, 08:24 AM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New Orleans, La
Posts: 39
Re: Sony FS7 first impressions

We need Sony or an aftermarket company to revamp the 18-105 so that it has focus end stop and an iris on the lens.

It is curious that Red re-engineered the Tamron 17-50mm but none of the folks such as Duclos, G.L. Optics, or PC Hood have performed re-engineering of the Tamron 17-50mm. On s35 that lens is a 24-70mm comparable 35mm equivalent f.o.v.

If the Sony FE 28-135mm were an A-mount lens you could use it with a A-mount to E-mount speed booster Ultra and it would actually be close to a 35mm comparable equivalent of 28-135mm. An odd world where you find yourself wishing a lens was NOT made in a mount native to your camera.

I'm with you in the frustration, Bram. Someone, anyone...please, MAKE A DAMN ENG LENS for s35 that fulfills real-world need and doesn't cost 3x as much as the camera!! I don't even care if the quality is sub-par. I'd rather GET the shot with sub-par glass than MISS the shot because I'm trying to quickly swap lenses and fiddling with those damn adapters.
J. David Pope is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony Digital Cinema Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM PXW-FS7 / FS5

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:23 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network