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Old November 14th, 2015, 08:22 AM   #1
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FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

Sony FS5 Update – Shipping this month, new firmware in January, and new video gives designer?s insights

So it looks like NewsShooter is saying that the FS5 will shut down HDMI output when recording is being done internally. This is a similar trick that Sony is employing on the RX10-II and A7S-II today.

This, of course, stops you from recording an event to an SD card and monitoring it with an external monitor.

I don't mind seeing this limitation on a DSLR camera but I think it's quite shameful to see this trick being used on a $5,000+ professional "XDCAM" camera.

Let's hope that this was just a simple mistake made by a Sony intern engineer. Maybe a senior guy will step in and get that problem (or decision) reversed.
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Old November 15th, 2015, 05:53 PM   #2
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Re: FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

I can't locate anything from Sony on the link you posted.

Alister Chapman mentions its going to be an issue with the first firmware ver 1 but will be fixed shortly after release with version 1.1 also if you have not watch this yet its loaded with very useful information on color, gamma and log

at 2:08:16 he speaks about the issue
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Old November 17th, 2015, 11:49 AM   #3
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Re: FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

It looks like the FS5 may be using the A7II processing but with the FS7/F5 sensor. This may go some way to explaining why at launch at least there will be no HDMI output when you go into record.

It has been officially announced by Sony that this limitation will exist with the firmware that will be in the cameras at release (cameras are arriving in dealers today). Firmware version 1.1 will restore the output while recording, so it's a temporary issue.
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Old November 17th, 2015, 12:47 PM   #4
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Re: FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

Thanks Alister, that is wonderful news!

I'm planning on a Jan/Feb purchase anyway.

Side note: Did you notice if the FS5 had that really useful EX1R / FS7. Depth of field/focus meter/scale on its monitor?
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Old November 17th, 2015, 03:02 PM   #5
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Re: FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

This still begs the question, after the update, will we be able to monitor on the camera LCD (or EVF for that matter) while viewing/recording to an external screen?
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Old November 18th, 2015, 05:25 AM   #6
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Re: FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

Here's a viewpoint on this issue.

Want to record 4K internally and record externally on the FS5, and use the built-in monitor or EVF? No can do say Sony
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Old November 18th, 2015, 08:58 AM   #7
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Re: FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

"It has been officially announced by Sony that this limitation will exist with the firmware that will be in the cameras at release (cameras are arriving in dealers today)"

Cameras arriving at dealers yesterday? In the U.S., too? :)
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Old November 18th, 2015, 05:56 PM   #8
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Re: FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

I wonder if you can record 4K to the cards and then monitor externally with 1080p?
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Old November 19th, 2015, 05:08 AM   #9
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Re: FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

This news is a disappointment and certainly made me pause and seriously consider cancelling my FS5 pre-order yesterday.

But in truth, the FS5 has (potentially) so many strengths for what I need it for. I could have had the FS5 in my hands today but wanted 24 hours to go through this new information before I spent my cash.

Right now, 90% of the time all I want/need (and importantly what my corporate clients want) is 4.2.2 10-bit Full HD. I want this capability in as small and nibble package as possible as this FS5 will spend some of it's time on my new Letus Helix Junior - I don't fancy handling larger cams like a FS7 on gimbals! I would have bought a C100 MkII if it had a proper codec as I love my C100 - but as it still has internal AVCHD 4.2.0 that kept me away.

The 4K on this FS5 is more of a "dip my toe in the 4K water thing" for me - and external recording is rarely something I like doing (but is sometimes a necessity on my C100, where I use the excellent Ninja Blade) although external monitoring sure can be very, very useful. I am hoping that if you record in HD on the FS5 and therefore output HD (i.e. not 4K) then you can do still multiple outputs on the FS5. I should know more when I receive my camera in the next day or so and I would hope Sony now go OUT OF THEIR WAY to make things as clear as possible.

Bottom line - if I really need "proper, professional 4K capabilities" in the next year or so I'll buy a FS7 (or, much more likely its natural successor, whoever might make it).

Finally, one cynical comment - interesting that Sony chose to keep this quiet until the FS5 started to ship - no doubt to keep the pre-orders and "buzz" going. They must have known about this limitation early in the design stages. Shame on you Sony. Note to self - I won't be pre-ordering my next camera, which may or may not be a Sony, whenever that point comes. Professionals don't like nasty surprises - especially when they severely limit functionality that one would consider the norm on a camera at this price point.
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Old November 19th, 2015, 09:28 AM   #10
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Re: FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Haustein View Post
I wonder if you can record 4K to the cards and then monitor externally with 1080p?
Going from the Atomos video. Right now as it ships no, once you hit record the HDMI/SDI goes blank, next firmware upgrade sounds like you can pick 2.... external rec, internal rec, on camera display
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Old November 19th, 2015, 08:21 PM   #11
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Re: FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

Is this limitation only on 4K, or does it apply when shooting HD, also?

The external monitors are critical for our work. Trying to re-evaluate that order for 2 FS5s.
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Old November 20th, 2015, 08:46 AM   #12
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Re: FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

Tom,

My FS5 arrived half an hour ago. I hooked up my Atomos Ninja Blade and with the cam recording 1080p50 internally to SDXC card I still got HDMI out (presumably 1080/50i) to the Blade recording at 1080p25 (if I've understood it correctly) and was able to record on both. LCD stayed on throughout this very quick test. Did not get a record trigger to auto start recording on the Blade though (but that may be a menu setting I've overlooked/Blade was last used with my C100) - so I just made it record manually.

Picture below on my twitter feed - see also my picture of the C100 and FS5 side by side a few minutes earlier on my twitter feed too.

https://twitter.com/AndyKWilkinson/s...17779215265793

Hope this helps - looks like it's a 4K restriction only…In HD things seem to work as we would expect.

FS5 is as well built as my PMW-300 and C100. Very nice feel to it - super light. Can't wait to get to grips with it and start shooting!
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Old November 20th, 2015, 01:30 PM   #13
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Re: FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

Thank you, wonder if you can shoot internal 4k and use the SDI to feed a monitor an HD signal with overlay
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Old November 26th, 2015, 01:49 AM   #14
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Re: FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

I just got my Sony FS5, was dismayed when I heard about this issue. I can't believe a professional camcorder that disables monitoring while recording 4K, making it very limited

I just did a quick test with my Zacuto Gratical EVF Indeed when in 4K mode hitting record disables the HDMI output. SDI output is worse, it disables the signal. At least with HDMI output you can get the info display from the FS5 if you have it set that way. (this all with the HDMI / SDI set to 1080P)

I have to say that I'm quite disappointed - this is unbelievable to me. I got this for 4K, not for the 10bit 4:2:2 HD which has been available in camcorders forever. The only hope is that Jeremy of Atomos is incorrect and that a firmware upgrade will resolve this issue. Unacceptable! I may be returning it

I'll be discussing it on my podcast, TechMove, TechMove is the Podcast all about Digital Filmmaking, Gear, Mac Computers, and iOS Devices from a Unique Perspective! in the near future.

-Keith Moreau
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Old December 1st, 2015, 04:10 PM   #15
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Re: FS5 - Sony confirms monitor/output cripple?

I can confirm that the A7SII will record 4K internally and output a 1080 video feed via HDMI. The camera screen does go blank. I don't know if this helps anyone.
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