FS5's XDCAM update

Samer Aslan · June 28th, 2016, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

Anyone heard of a release date for the XDCAM firmware update? it was supposed to be released in June.

Just a reminder for this thread so it doesn't fade away without an answer or any info about it!
Anyone have any clue about this upgrade? any link from Sony?
Thanks

Kevin Langdon · June 29th, 2016, 07:15 AM

I've been in contact with Sony on an unrelated matter, so also asked about this.

I was told by Sony UK, who checked with its marketing department, that this optional upgrade isn't going to happen. I was told Sony had made a mistake be releasing this information earlier this year! And the information related to the X70 and not the FS5.

This seems difficult to believe that a company the size of Sony would make this sort of mistake?

If it can offer it for the X70, is it such a leap to be able to offer it for the FS5?

Maybe, if the demand is there, Sony will in the future?

I must say that I was rather surprised as it's not as if this option hadn't been publicised. Or is it a case of UK Sony not knowing what Japan has in the pipeline?

Maybe someone with Sony contacts can clarify this further...

Andy Wilkinson · June 29th, 2016, 08:41 AM

Very interesting...thanks for sharing.

So why did they put a XDCAM logo on the side of the FS5?...and why on Earth did they announce it was coming?

Poor show Sony (not that I would have bought this particular Firmware option, BTW).

I wonder, after Sony said "by mistake" (or so it now seems...that XDCAM option was coming) just how many people then bought the FS5 expecting the option to have this legacy codec capability?

Samer Aslan · June 29th, 2016, 04:22 PM

This is really disappointing.It seemed to me too good to be true! could have been a great extra to this camera...I'm sure that more than 90% of FS5's owners would have preferred the Xdcamhd mpeg2 instead of that crappy Avchd!! Go figure...
Thanks for the update

Kevin Langdon · June 30th, 2016, 09:15 AM

I also asked Alister Chapman whether he knew anymore via an existing FS5 tutorial conversation on his own website.

Here's his reply:

http://www.xdcam-user.com/2016/06/px...#comment-80418

Glen Vandermolen · June 30th, 2016, 10:39 AM

Damn, this sucks.

Why give it to the X70 and not the FS5? Protecting the FS7, maybe?

Nigel Davey · June 30th, 2016, 12:14 PM

Shame that XDCAM isn't the codec, since in the UK (at least) a manufacturer can't put a logo on a product and then not deliver on what it implies: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trad...tions_Act_1968

Cliff Totten · June 30th, 2016, 11:03 PM

But the FS5 CAN have the "XDCAM" logo.

Today, Sony "XDCAM" now has two CODECS....The older H.262 (MPEG2) and the newer H.264 (AVC).

As long as the FS5 supports at least one of these CODECS, it can carry the "XDCAM" logo.

I don't think anybody can attack Sony from any legal angle. "XDCAM" is a Sony defined brand. They could simply argue in their defense that "XDCAM" is nothing more that a "camera" model line and that it's not married to any actual MPEG CODEC....old , new or future.

I'm fairly certain that H.265 (HEVC) will be the future 3rd CODEC to be included in "XDCAM" cameras soon for 6k and 8k. So again, h.264 cant do 8K, so get ready for the next Sony CODEC roll out. And,...if those future 8k XDCAM cameras cant do MPEG2 or H.264 and can only do H.265 HEVC?, they can still carry the "XDCAM" logo.

So yeah, their defense will be; "Sorry, but we (Sony) never said the XDCAM logo "only" meant MPEG2 exclusively, especially when our marketing material promoted the new h.264 so heavily."

I think Sony is safe with the XDCAM camera branding. What CAN screw them are those original rare documents that started to float out there that DID show a paid MPEG2 upgrade option. They pulled that back in pretty quick and hoped that people would forget.

If a buyer made a decision based on this pulled back document?....now you got a case!

CT

Noa Put · July 1st, 2016, 05:09 AM

Sony's decision to withhold the mpeg2 codec from the fs5 but to include it in the x70 is most likely that the x70 is for them a "broadcast ready" camera that can serve a large group of broadcast professionals that depend on that particular codec to deliver to production houses that also demand such a codec. Sony doesn't seem to want the fs5 to be used for that same purpose but they do so for their fs7 (from what I have seen it has that mpeg2 codec?), the only reasoning behind it that I can think of is to protect the fs7 and it's Sony's way of saying, "if you want it all then buy the fs7"

Chris Clifton · July 12th, 2016, 01:11 PM

Wow, I was a few days away from grabbing an FS5 when I read that ad floating around that v2 would provide MPEG422. So glad I read this thread just now. Thanks guys. Downloaded the v2 manual and there is no mention of 422. Good grief! That should be standard. Even the z150 has it at half the price. C'mon Sony! Do the right thing.

Dano Motley · July 12th, 2016, 02:04 PM

Chris,

What do mean by V2? The camera or the software? And can you post the link...

Thanks,

Dano

Jeremy Cole · July 12th, 2016, 02:21 PM

Sony appears to be pegging this camera as a less than a professional camera ... too bad, since it is a workhorse for me. The mpeg2 codec would certainly make it more useful. I went online to the Sony Community site and there is no forum for the FS5. it is left out completely. If I had realized that they planned to peg it in this way, I would have made a different choice. I like the camera but I don't like a camera to be pegged for less than it is or can be. Support may suffer. I guess we will see how they treat it over time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Sony's decision to withhold the mpeg2 codec from the fs5 but to include it in the x70 is most likely that the x70 is for them a "broadcast ready" camera that can serve a large group of broadcast professionals that depend on that particular codec to deliver to production houses that also demand such a codec. Sony doesn't seem to want the fs5 to be used for that same purpose but they do so for their fs7 (from what I have seen it has that mpeg2 codec?), the only reasoning behind it that I can think of is to protect the fs7 and it's Sony's way of saying, "if you want it all then buy the fs7"

Marcus Durham · July 13th, 2016, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Clifton

Wow, I was a few days away from grabbing an FS5 when I read that ad floating around that v2 would provide MPEG422. So glad I read this thread just now. Thanks guys. Downloaded the v2 manual and there is no mention of 422. Good grief! That should be standard. Even the z150 has it at half the price. C'mon Sony! Do the right thing.

V2 is the firmware update. 422 4K is supported via external recorders IIRC once a paid upgrade is in place but Sony haven't provided that yet.

As far as I know there is no V2 of the camera. It is just the firmware.

Chris Clifton · July 13th, 2016, 08:44 AM

Right, firmware version 2.00. The Sony Professional site has the manual posted that goes the update and there is no mention of MPEG422.

Cliff Totten · July 13th, 2016, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy Cole

Sony appears to be pegging this camera as a less than a professional camera ... too bad, since it is a workhorse for me. The mpeg2 codec would certainly make it more useful. I went online to the Sony Community site and there is no forum for the FS5. it is left out completely. If I had realized that they planned to peg it in this way, I would have made a different choice. I like the camera but I don't like a camera to be pegged for less than it is or can be. Support may suffer. I guess we will see how they treat it over time.

Just curious, does anybody have the opinion that the MPEG-2, 8bit 4:2:2, 50MBp/s, CODEC is a "professional" CODEC but the H.264, 10bit, 4:2:2, 50Mbp/s CODEC is NOT "professional"?

I must say that I really under estimated the current demand today for MPEG-2. I really thought that H.264 had already successfully replaced the majority of the desire for MPEG-2.

I guess I was wrong. I wonder how long MPEG-2 demand will continue for. 2 years?...3 years?...even more?

CT

June 29th, 2016, 07:15 AM	#32
Kevin Langdon Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Somerset, England Posts: 120	Re: FS5's XDCAM update I've been in contact with Sony on an unrelated matter, so also asked about this. I was told by Sony UK, who checked with its marketing department, that this optional upgrade isn't going to happen. I was told Sony had made a mistake be releasing this information earlier this year! And the information related to the X70 and not the FS5. This seems difficult to believe that a company the size of Sony would make this sort of mistake? If it can offer it for the X70, is it such a leap to be able to offer it for the FS5? Maybe, if the demand is there, Sony will in the future? I must say that I was rather surprised as it's not as if this option hadn't been publicised. Or is it a case of UK Sony not knowing what Japan has in the pipeline? Maybe someone with Sony contacts can clarify this further...

June 29th, 2016, 08:41 AM	#33
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Re: FS5's XDCAM update Very interesting...thanks for sharing. So why did they put a XDCAM logo on the side of the FS5?...and why on Earth did they announce it was coming? Poor show Sony (not that I would have bought this particular Firmware option, BTW). I wonder, after Sony said "by mistake" (or so it now seems...that XDCAM option was coming) just how many people then bought the FS5 expecting the option to have this legacy codec capability? __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

June 29th, 2016, 04:22 PM	#34
Samer Aslan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Padua/Venice - Italy Posts: 131	Re: FS5's XDCAM update This is really disappointing.It seemed to me too good to be true! could have been a great extra to this camera...I'm sure that more than 90% of FS5's owners would have preferred the Xdcamhd mpeg2 instead of that crappy Avchd!! Go figure... Thanks for the update __________________ PDW-F800.PXW-X200.Odyssey7Q+.A7S.www.videoshot.it-Videoshot

June 30th, 2016, 09:15 AM	#35
Kevin Langdon Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Somerset, England Posts: 120	Re: FS5's XDCAM update I also asked Alister Chapman whether he knew anymore via an existing FS5 tutorial conversation on his own website. Here's his reply: http://www.xdcam-user.com/2016/06/px...#comment-80418

June 30th, 2016, 10:39 AM	#36
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Re: FS5's XDCAM update Damn, this sucks. Why give it to the X70 and not the FS5? Protecting the FS7, maybe?

June 30th, 2016, 12:14 PM	#37
Nigel Davey Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 241	Re: FS5's XDCAM update Shame that XDCAM isn't the codec, since in the UK (at least) a manufacturer can't put a logo on a product and then not deliver on what it implies: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trad...tions_Act_1968 __________________ www.ndavey.co.uk

June 30th, 2016, 11:03 PM	#38
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: FS5's XDCAM update But the FS5 CAN have the "XDCAM" logo. Today, Sony "XDCAM" now has two CODECS....The older H.262 (MPEG2) and the newer H.264 (AVC). As long as the FS5 supports at least one of these CODECS, it can carry the "XDCAM" logo. I don't think anybody can attack Sony from any legal angle. "XDCAM" is a Sony defined brand. They could simply argue in their defense that "XDCAM" is nothing more that a "camera" model line and that it's not married to any actual MPEG CODEC....old , new or future. I'm fairly certain that H.265 (HEVC) will be the future 3rd CODEC to be included in "XDCAM" cameras soon for 6k and 8k. So again, h.264 cant do 8K, so get ready for the next Sony CODEC roll out. And,...if those future 8k XDCAM cameras cant do MPEG2 or H.264 and can only do H.265 HEVC?, they can still carry the "XDCAM" logo. So yeah, their defense will be; "Sorry, but we (Sony) never said the XDCAM logo "only" meant MPEG2 exclusively, especially when our marketing material promoted the new h.264 so heavily." I think Sony is safe with the XDCAM camera branding. What CAN screw them are those original rare documents that started to float out there that DID show a paid MPEG2 upgrade option. They pulled that back in pretty quick and hoped that people would forget. If a buyer made a decision based on this pulled back document?....now you got a case! CT

July 1st, 2016, 05:09 AM	#39
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: FS5's XDCAM update Sony's decision to withhold the mpeg2 codec from the fs5 but to include it in the x70 is most likely that the x70 is for them a "broadcast ready" camera that can serve a large group of broadcast professionals that depend on that particular codec to deliver to production houses that also demand such a codec. Sony doesn't seem to want the fs5 to be used for that same purpose but they do so for their fs7 (from what I have seen it has that mpeg2 codec?), the only reasoning behind it that I can think of is to protect the fs7 and it's Sony's way of saying, "if you want it all then buy the fs7"

July 12th, 2016, 01:11 PM	#40
Chris Clifton Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 56	Re: FS5's XDCAM update Wow, I was a few days away from grabbing an FS5 when I read that ad floating around that v2 would provide MPEG422. So glad I read this thread just now. Thanks guys. Downloaded the v2 manual and there is no mention of 422. Good grief! That should be standard. Even the z150 has it at half the price. C'mon Sony! Do the right thing.

July 12th, 2016, 02:04 PM	#41
Dano Motley Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Montclair New Jersey Posts: 101	Re: FS5's XDCAM update Chris, What do mean by V2? The camera or the software? And can you post the link... Thanks, Dano

July 13th, 2016, 08:44 AM	#44
Chris Clifton Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 56	Re: FS5's XDCAM update Right, firmware version 2.00. The Sony Professional site has the manual posted that goes the update and there is no mention of MPEG422.