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Old August 18th, 2016, 12:09 AM   #31
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Re: How noticeable is Log latitude really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Davey View Post
I didn't shoot it Piotr. I just saw it pop up on one of the four FS5 Facebook groups I follow. Given my original post/request for any direct rec709 vs. Log comparisons, I thought I'd share it.
Thanks, but I was actually referring to your previous comment (in your post before sharing the Vimeo link).
So, on a more general note - how do you grade your Slog/Pro gamut, de-saturated footage in Resolve (or any other NLE you happen to be using)?

Cheers

Piotr
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Old August 20th, 2016, 04:47 AM   #32
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Re: How noticeable is Log latitude really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Thanks, but I was actually referring to your previous comment (in your post before sharing the Vimeo link).
So, on a more general note - how do you grade your Slog/Pro gamut, de-saturated footage in Resolve (or any other NLE you happen to be using)?

Cheers

Piotr
My only experience with S-Log thus far was a few weeks ago and it was a personal experiment rather than a paid job. I edited it in Premiere (which wasn't fun) and the results were ok (see below). I accept I need to learn Resolve to do Log justice, but it's carving out the time. My clients aren't asking for Log and most of them wouldn't even know what it is. So mastering it seems a luxury for me personally right now. But that's not to say I won't try or aren't interested, just needs must.

However I do think this will all change when HDR TVs really take off. But by that time I suspect log will be replaced by a codec that captures most/all of the dynamic range at source in the (then) new cameras.

Here's my ne and only S-log experiment I referenced:
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Old September 10th, 2016, 12:07 AM   #33
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Re: How noticeable is Log latitude really?

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Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post

Difficult choice it is in such situation. Therefore I totally agree with someone else's statement that Slog material will make for more future proof archives of my footage (even though, as my main "delivery" setup is my own large SUHD, Quantum Dot Samsung TV already capable of "sort of" HDR and with color gamut close to Rec2020). I even tried grading my Slog3 footage in HDR and rendering to Rec2020, and while the result certainly isn't as gorgeous as true, Dolby Vision pictures I once saw on an industry-grade, HDR Sony monitor - in certainly looks better on my Samsung than even the best HG/Rec709 shot material... But that's jus me; for the reason some of you guys may remember - I'm now a one-band freelancer shooting/editing/grading/delivering "crew". so I can afford all kind of experimenting :)

Piotr
Just to tell you guys that since the above post of mine - having climbed higher on Resolve learning curve - I now almost exclusively grade for HDR 10 (ST. 2084). least demanding type of HDR standards - and the results I'm getting put an end to my skepticism towards using Slog3/S-Gamut3.Cine. Today, I shoot exclusively in Slog!

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Old September 11th, 2016, 11:53 AM   #34
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Re: How noticeable is Log latitude really?

Everything? Indoors and low light too?

1080 and UHD? 8 bit too?

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Old September 11th, 2016, 09:22 PM   #35
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Re: How noticeable is Log latitude really?

Why the mockery, Cliff?

I have FS7, so no 8 bits at all. I didn't sell my workhorse EX1 to shoot HD on FS7, either... So yes - everything: UFHD at 25 or 50 fps, or 4K DCI...

Not that I need excuses, but after becoming partially disabled I don't shoot or edit professionally any more - and doing it for my own pleasure I can afford doing it the "new better way" at my own pace. With no clients' demands, time pressure etc.

And ever since I stopped skimping on Resolve software and hardware, I discovered how really potent a system daVinci can be. With my Studio license, Decklink 4K Extreme 12G with HDMI 2.0a mezzanine card - and of course my FS7 S-Gamut3.Cine/Slog3 footage on input, and Rec.2020/ST.2084 on output, feeding my HDR10 (up to 10x 100 = 1,000 nits) capable Samsung SUHD TV, I have all HDR workflow ingredients at hand. Sure, it's the "poor man's flavor of HDR, and not even to compare with Dolby Vision - but with the Sony BVM X300 monitor costing half of my 400 hp BMW, I'm not THAT crazy (plus I don't need it).

If you don't know what I'm talking about, you can read how simple the HDR10 workflow is on page 186 and on of the Resolve manual. My original reservations about Slog(3) footage tending to be noisy have been mitigated the moment my Resolve Studio license allowed for Noise Reduction here and there...

Rec.709? It may look great on regular (U)FHD TV, but after you use BM RCM with Slog3 on input, and Rec.2020 with PQ "gamma" of ST.2084 on output to "feel the bin" of this HDR1000 capable TV - the huge DR, contrast, and above all: your 1,000 nits superwhites still containing actual color instead of Rec.709 washed-out highlights - you will never look back at Rec.709.

Try it, Cliff - even with FS5 you can, even though with the additional investment for shooting RAW on external recorder. If you are OK with QFHD at up to 24/25/30 fps only, you can save on the $1,500 12G Decklink and buy the $195, 6G, 4K mini-monitor Decklink model that have just been announced (https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...specs/W-DLK-32).

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Old September 12th, 2016, 11:12 AM   #36
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Re: How noticeable is Log latitude really?

Woah there Poitr, I'm NOT mocking you. I only do that (slightly) to people that get nasty to other people on this board. Never to normal, nice people.

I didn't notice you were on a FS7. I also only ask that because generally speaking SLOG "supresses" brightness by a certain ratio...for lack of a better word...and that can make low light shooting very challenging.

That's all I was getting at. I have never experienced FS5's raw bUT I have on the FS700 and I love that.

For people that shoot LOG on 8 bit, you must be very careful....you "can" get good results but you have to also live with the artifacts that heavy stretching of 8 bit values bring too.



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Old September 15th, 2016, 10:38 PM   #37
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Re: How noticeable is Log latitude really?

Hi Cliff,

Sorry for suspecting you of mockery towards my enthusiastic (and a bit "neophyte" sounding) comment on using Slog; somehow when posting it, I forgot that in this forum, there are more FS5 than FS7 users, and of course most of my enthusiasm only applies when one has 10-bit footage to start with. You probably remember how a few months ago, I was debating on which of the 2 cameras to choose; I must tell you that - even though the FS7 is heavier and seemingly a worse choice for somebody with my neck spine condition - now that I discovered the possibilities the 10-bit XAVC codec provides when grading in Resolve, I don't regret it for a second...

And of course -as you know - it's also great that even with the FS5, with the latter upgrade and some additional hardware investment, all those exciting possibilities are open to FS5 users, as well.

Cheers, mate!

Piotr
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