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Old April 2nd, 2017, 01:53 AM   #1
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FS5 - New 1080p120fps Continuous Recording Option

I see that amongst the list of firmware updates that Sony recently announced for release this summer is the option for a firmware update key for the FS5 that will allow continuous 120 frames per second high frame rate recording in 1080p (or 100 fps in PAL setting, I imagine).

Unlike the free HDR/HLG etc. firmware update (V4.0) this will be a paid for option (like the Raw or the XDCAM options we have seen previously). Price TBA - but let's hope it is more modest than those!

https://www.sony.co.uk/pro/article/b...ipment-roadmap

Super little camera - and it's great to see these new options appearing!
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Old April 2nd, 2017, 05:07 PM   #2
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Re: FS5 - New 1080p120fps Continuous Recording Option

Cool! It is interesting that the camera and media can handle continuous 120 frame rate recording. The common wisdom had always been that the media couldn't keep up. I guess it was simply a marketing decision. Now if they can make the 4K 10bit, that would be super!
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Old April 4th, 2017, 11:54 AM   #3
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Re: FS5 - New 1080p120fps Continuous Recording Option

Its interesting....

Anyone know how many Sony cameras that are WAY under the FS5's price that can shoot 120fps? I can think of four. Non of them need paid firmware updates.

Sony is charging for this on the FS5? Is that a typ-O?

CT
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Old April 4th, 2017, 12:13 PM   #4
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Re: FS5 - New 1080p120fps Continuous Recording Option

Exactly...
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Old April 4th, 2017, 09:56 PM   #5
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Re: FS5 - New 1080p120fps Continuous Recording Option

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Cole View Post
Cool! It is interesting that the camera and media can handle continuous 120 frame rate recording. The common wisdom had always been that the media couldn't keep up. I guess it was simply a marketing decision. Now if they can make the 4K 10bit, that would be super!
This is a bit of trade off as you increase the frame rate, resolution, color depth it eats into your bitrate. If the bitrate stays the same then the camera needs to further compress an already compressed format to fit all the goodies you want.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 11:45 AM   #6
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Re: FS5 - New 1080p120fps Continuous Recording Option

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Originally Posted by Cliff Totten View Post
Its interesting....

Anyone know how many Sony cameras that are WAY under the FS5's price that can shoot 120fps? I can think of four. Non of them need paid firmware updates.

Sony is charging for this on the FS5? Is that a typ-O?

CT
But do those four cameras you mention crop or window the sensor when shooting 120fps?
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Old April 6th, 2017, 12:58 PM   #7
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Re: FS5 - New 1080p120fps Continuous Recording Option

Yes,...they oversample their sensors to get very detailed UHD. So, they take in much more data per second than a smaller, simple 1:1 readout. The FS5 has less data across its sensor. It only does a 1:1 deBayer.

Yes...they crop in on 120p, the FS5 doesnt need to. (Shouldnt need to) High detail comes at a price I guess!

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Old April 6th, 2017, 02:16 PM   #8
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Re: FS5 - New 1080p120fps Continuous Recording Option

Let's be more specific on which Sony models do what with respect to 1080 120p:

1. Sony RX series (1" sensor): They do 1080 120p with no crop. This is the RX10 II and III and the RX100 IV and RX100 V.

2. The Sony A7s ii (FF). It does 1080 120p on a crop of the sensor. (2.2 crop relative to its UHD FF).

100 Mbps is the bitrate for all of these cameras at 1080 120p. The same as for UHD. Bitrate, not frame rate or resolution, determines the recording media.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 02:33 PM   #9
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Re: FS5 - New 1080p120fps Continuous Recording Option

Good information there. I own an RX10-II and RX10-III. I knew my A7S-II cropped but i never once used 120p on my RX's as I only shoot UHD 30p for everything today.

Thanks for clarifying that!

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Old April 6th, 2017, 04:15 PM   #10
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Re: FS5 - New 1080p120fps Continuous Recording Option

Just for more info: the quality in good light of the RX10, RX100 1080 120p and that from the A7s ii is about the same. In low light, the A7s ii kills the small-sensor RX10's and RX100's.

Here is a boring (but nice Bach) slow motion comparison in dim light of the A7s ii and the RX100 IV at 1080 120p. If you view full screen (I am not talking about seeing this at 100%, just the normal full screen) you see that the Rx100 IV clip is very much noisier - you cannot read under any light the words on the camera, for example.


The RX100 IV is first.

And a real application of slow motion from 1080 120p, from the A7s ii:


Last edited by Mark Rosenzweig; April 6th, 2017 at 06:40 PM.
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Old May 12th, 2017, 02:51 AM   #11
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Re: FS5 - New 1080p120fps Continuous Recording Option

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rosenzweig View Post
Let's be more specific on which Sony models do what with respect to 1080 120p:

1. Sony RX series (1" sensor): They do 1080 120p with no crop. This is the RX10 II and III and the RX100 IV and RX100 V.

2. The Sony A7s ii (FF). It does 1080 120p on a crop of the sensor. (2.2 crop relative to its UHD FF).

100 Mbps is the bitrate for all of these cameras at 1080 120p. The same as for UHD. Bitrate, not frame rate or resolution, determines the recording media.
And of course the venerable FS700 - which pretty much matches the FS5 in slo mo capability.
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Old May 12th, 2017, 11:36 PM   #12
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Re: FS5 - New 1080p120fps Continuous Recording Option

I strongly believe that the FS5 actually IS an FS700 for all intents and purposes. Same sensor, same circuit readout, same FS raw protocol, same raw image quality. Hell, "maybe" even the H.264 encoder on the FS700 is the exact same chip that encodes 100Mbp/s UHD H.264 (XAVC-L) on the FS5 with a firmware change and a file wrapper change. Well,...maybe that CODEC chipis new but you never know!

If you look at the FS5 raw files in ACR, the meta data labels the files as FS700. So, maybe Sony programmers never even bothered to modify the FS5 firmware to write an "FS5" tag into the metadata. They seem to have just ported it all over straight from the FS700 and left it as is.

I suspect that Sony didn't want to "reinvent the wheel" with the FS5 sensor and readout circuit or motherboard. The FS700 R&D work was already done and it was battle tested and looks beautiful. So, move it over into a new body, tweak the H.264 CODEC and add that sweet electronic ND filter into a new body and BOOM...all finished.

It's a low FS5 R&D cost because 75% of it was recycled from the FS700??

That's my guess!
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