New stabilizer arm?
 

Hi all. New here and I must say I love this site. Very informative. You guys really rock. I was doing a search for steadicam like rigs and did a picture search that brought this picture to view.

I was fascinated by it and made me think what type of arm it is. It looks somewhat homemade but it looks too good to be homemade. It reminds of the the Paddock arm but it uses compression type springs, so I'm told. This seems to use extension ones.

Anybody knows what type of arm it is? I'm curious. I have not seen it before. Maybe Charles Papert knows as he is a steadicam operator.

Here is the link to it: www.steadycam.0catch.com/armteaser2.jpg

Looks homemade to me.

Components look too exposed to me. But hey, what do I know?

(plus it isn't black)

...but I have also seen arms that are exposed as well. I think the older steadicam arm were also exposed. mmmmm!

Hummm......

Well I reckon it's homemade :)

I'm sure we shall soon find out.

There are no pulleys or wires of any kind that i can see. I know the glidecam uses no wires and pulleys in their arm but not in that configuration. Just wondering over the idea. Looks cool, I think. It'll be cool to find out who made it.
I'm looking into the glidecam v8. Seeing the post on this forum, it seems people are satisfied with it.

The Glidecam Gold arm does in fact use a pulley system. The V-8 though, you are correct Lars, does not.

The arm in question does look to me to be completely home made, and also looks as though it would be extremely slinky with the springs attached so close to the pivot points.

Interesting idea, but I would gamble not a very good one in practical terms.

What you guys said. Someone obviously spent a lot of time working on this, but the design is a bit off in certain ways as Casey mentioned. Considering that it has the small mounting posts and thus is intended to be used with lighter rigs, it seems a bit overbuilt for that weight range (probably quite heavy)

"though it would be extremely slinky with the springs attached so close to the pivot points. "

Thanks for the responce guys. Casey, could you explain what you mean by remark you made above? thanks.

Well, Well, Well! Lars, Charles P. and especially you Casey, thanks for the comments, although some are negative as they sounded. Yes, the arm is mine. The arm is homebuilt and is part of a dual action arm. The arm was in it's test state when that pic was taken.
The design concept is GPI pro-like but with extension aprings as you stated Lars. The arm works beautifully so far.
the best part, different springs can be exchanged with ease. Try and exchange springs in an arm full of pullies and wires.
If you go to the HBS and read you'll get a better understanding of my concept.

Charles P. I don't really think it's over built but will tell straight off that its the stability that counts and it achieves that. The parts are aluminium but still a little heavy as I would like it to be. I don't have the dollars for high grade composite material which would have been way better but you gotta use what you can afford in the world of home building. Unfortuately the arm weighs around 7kg in total. About 1.7kg more than the master arm.
I'm trying to get it down a bit.

You are also right in saying that the arm looks to handle only light rigs. Well, if you think 20kg is light than I salute you.

Casey, I see that you work with Glidecam. BTW, say hi to Thomas Howie, if you know him. I just got some pics from him to use in my book. Check out the cover:

http://pub173.ezboard.com/fhomebuilt...icID=217.topic

Now you said: "Interesting idea, but I would gamble not a very good one in practical terms."

I guess you wouldn't know because you havn't tested the concept out. Which I understand. doubts will continue to be the norm amoung homebuilders and I don't blame you. One things for sure. If you don't know then you just don't know ;)

You know it's funny when Mr.Brown was going around to get his idea bought some of the big name camera companies truned him away. Now, look at him now. Aah well.

BTW Casey. Do you mind explaining what you mean't by "extremely slinky " and what does it have to do with the springs being too close to the pivot points? Sorry Lars for tripping over your question but I am also curious. Maybe Charles P. can explain this too.

Charles K,

Ofcourse I wouldn't know, these are only my impressions from a single raw photograph. I'm basing these observations on my own mechanical knowledge of our own rigs, and how they behave under certain conditions.

Perhaps "slinky" wasn't the best term. But then what do you expect? I am after all, an Italian from Massachusetts! I believe what I mean is that with the springs that close to the pivot points, the arm section would lack the tension and resistance to support a heavy sled and thus be very bouncy ("slinky")...and even if it did, it may not be easily tunable for varying sled weights.

I basically said to myself, "If I were to take a heap of V-8 or V-16 parts and configure the springs just like that, I don't believe it would be as solid". Thus, my "gamble" was that your configuration of springs wouldnt be as practical in real world usage as the more standard spring configurations currently in use. But, ofcourse, I could be dead wrong, and it certainly would not be the first time...I'm not the engineer of the company, I'm part of the creative department!

Only rigourous test runs will prove it! I am curious to see how it behaves though.

Glad to hear you're putting together a book on the subject of home grown stabilizers though. I wish you the best of luck. And I will tell Tom you said hello on Monday!

Well, as I think I meant to say but didn't come out directly and say, it looks like a nice solid job, certainly for an individual (vs a manufacturer) Charles, so you should be proud. I've always been a bit fuzzy on the inner workings of the different design arms, even though I've owned a few (!), but I'm not sure that this design will delivery much linearity...? You'll have to let us know if this is the case. How much force is required to hold in the low position or lift to the high position?

Thanks for being candid guys. I'll be sure to let you guys know the out come.
Actually Casey the book is about my stabilizer and how I put it together.
I could get into a technical discussion about the springs configuration but you can see HBS forum as this is has been discussed there, if you're interested.
Any how guys you are allowed to have your doubts it only pushes me further. ;)

Thank you Charles for explaining. I think it is an original idea. I'm interested to know how you came by it and how it works. Do you have a machine shop? Öooks really different. You mentioned that your arm design made it easy to change springs. I guess that is a advantage over arms with pulleys

"Do you have a machine shop? Öooks really different. You mentioned that your arm design made it easy to change springs. I guess that is a advantage over arms with pulleys."

I live in a small town where there is a machine shop. In fact, I live in town where there is a steel industry that is world leading in special stainless steel. Kinda proud. Any way, this sho caters to them and other small business around. As you can tell they are always busy with orders from their biggest customer- The steel factory.
They are nice people who help me out sometimes and in return, they get a case of beer or free lunch out etc. Yep, bardering is back in effect :)

The springs in the arm are easy to change simply because of it's design simplicity. The GPI pro springs are just as easy. The choice of changing lighter springs with heavier ones or a combination of the two makes it a real flexible arm.

I can even turn this arm into a spring and pulley arm design using one,two or three springs. It can also be tensioned in it's vertical axis or linear axis, whichever way. I know you ask what's the point. Simple. Just to know that I can is enough. A three phase arm in one. Now, that feels good knowing that I'm the only one with this three in one concept.

Again, homebuilding is not for everyone and people will have their quirks about it. As long you do your homework and put aside some dedicated time than you will always have a negative thing to say. Frankly, I don't mind. I always tell people, who ask me about building a rig, to go and buy one if you have the money. You have to be interested to do any homebuilding of this type of thing.
If you don't experiment than you will never know if it works. That's how the Steadicam came about in the first.

To Casey:

You mentioned this comment: "...and even if it did, it may not be easily tunable for varying sled weights."

Do you mean adjusting the tension of the spring to support other camera weights?

Charles K,

Yes i meant tuning on the fly basically...without having to physically change the springs.

Yes it can be done. Looking at the pic you would miss it. Here is a pic of the spring adjuster:

http://homebuiltstabilizers.com/springtensioningcap.JPG

I guess you didn't see it just by looking att the first picture at first glance did you?

Well everything is detailed in my book. The design is a GPI design but in reverse. Simply put, the design uses tension springs instead of compression springs.

Charles K,

Thanks for the clarification, you couldnt really see that in the photo that Lars had posted.

You are welcome.

At one of the last Malibu workshops Garrett brought along an arm he had had made as a prototype for a new version of the Steadicam Mini. Basically a downscaling of the iso-elastic concept used in the Ultra arm. By looking at it, you would think "there's nothing in there--why would that work" but it worked like gangbusters; tracked beautifully and smoothly, and very little bounce even with such little mass as a Mini setup. I should know better than to judge the effectiveness of an unfamiliar arm design by looking at it after that!

Sadly Tiffen has not implemented that design into their Mini, which still ships with an all but useless arm in comparison.

Charles, I'm curious, since you are using a vertical pin design to attach the arm to the vest, do you have a way to adjust the pitch of the arm in two axes (such as is afforded by the standard Steadicam socket block)?

"Charles, I'm curious, since you are using a vertical pin design to attach the arm to the vest, do you have a way to adjust the pitch of the arm in two axes (such as is afforded by the standard Steadicam socket block)?"

That is being worked on at the moment but sadly it won't be available any time soon. I'm trying out a different approach. In the mean time, I've constructed a simple, little mundane approach to this matter.

Unfortunately I don't have my digital camera on hand to post a pic of it. When I do, I'll let you know. It's not adjustable in flight. That is, I have to remove the arm to adjust the fore and aft. I did not include a side to side due to the complication of the design. The fore and aft will have to do for the moment.

So what's your book going to be about Charles K.? Just describing
your experience or also a detailed howto build like Cody's plans?

Rob.

The book is basically about my rig and the methods in which I used to build it. It's like a personal journal for my rig. It's very short and concise. It explains the steadicam system invented by Mr Brown and host pics upon pics. Majority of them will be my entire rig, showing the different parts in detail.

The book will include a gallery show-casing systems built by other people. I also state my learned experices in the process as well as little tips, links etc for info and inspiration. There are pics of my dolly,matte box, steadicam systems, GPI and glidecam. It also list the many stabilizer companies there are.

I rely heavily on pics because I feel this is a very effective method in understanding something better. The entire book is filled with about 50-60% pics. It als includes thoughts by Thanh Le about building a rig. I also give my personal advice on home built rigs and little more.

This is not a show-you-how-to-build a steadicam-like device. I feel this a is more of a personal thing than a straight in you face type subject. To write such a book would be very demanding and time-consuming if one is to do it right.

Maybe a subject for someone else who has the time and patience.

On the whole it makes for good reading,browsing (if for inspiration) or just some kind of reference. I've also put a small review about Cody's plans and some other sites and forum's to visit. I've included this forum as a tip to others to check out

I do list however the tips to get one started on the road. Not much but a start.

I didn't mean to stir up anything, Charles K. but I am glad you and the others have made up.

BTW, Great book cover. Put me down for a copy of your book.

"I didn't mean to stir up anything, Charles K. but I am glad you and the others have made up."

No worries Lars. A good feud i good for the soul ;) It was just a little misunderstanding with the photo, that's all. I'm always open to criticism( only if they make sense).

Just HBS forum for updates in a couple of months, maybe sooner.

Great to know charles. One question. Have the company who makes the steadicam know about the book? What about Garret?

Tiffen himself as already requested two copies - one for the company and one for Mr. Brown to add to his collection.

I'm not too sure if Mr Brown knows but I would assume Mr. Tiffen has already informed him of the site and the book.

Great!

Hardly what I would call a "feud".

Just playing with words Casey. ;)

when will your arm be ready, charles? Eager to see how it looks in the end.

I'll add: this is not the first stabilizer arm made by Charles K. (just the best looking one :) ).

So, trust him! He knows what he's doing! :)

Thanks for the vote of confidence Cosmin :)

Lars, the arm is done its just that I'm waiting for springs. I'm having 16 plugs being machined for them at the moment.

put me down for a copy
 

Could you put me down for a copy of your book Charles? BTW, is it done almost?

No problem Lars. You are probably the 20th person to request a copy. Just keep checking the HBS forum forum for any updates on this issue. I'm glad to see there are folks interested. Puts a smile on my face.

Me. I'm anxious to get my hands on Charles P. training video when it comes out.

BTW, Charles P. I made mention of this in my book, a little PR for you, so I hope you don't mind.

Nice Charles, thanks much!

I am back on track with that project after a few months of work. I popped by the Tiffen workshop in Malibu a couple days ago and had some chats with various of the luminaries about the video: Jerry Holway, Garrett Brown etc. GB may make a small cameo in the video if we can schedule it. I'm actually getting excited about going into production on the damn thing.

Wow! all three amigoes. Yepeee! Can't wait to get my hands on it.

Alright Charles P. Here are some pics of the fore & Aft adjustments I made for the arm that you had asked me about. I didn't have any pics of it then but now I've taken a few:

http://homebuiltstabilizers.com/foreandaftadjustments.html

Looks good CK. It took me a little while to figure out the components, in that the section that appears to be the end component of the arm (with the U configuration) and the socket block seem to both have holes at their mating point, and in the assembled pic a bolt holds them together, is that right? With the two lateral bolts providing stability and setting the pitch of the arm.

Thanks for the comment... yes, you are right, a bolt holds the arm connector to the block. The pitch thing really makes the difference as I pointed out on the page. Glad I did it.

BTW, what design method is Magiqcam going to take to add that feature to their system? You had mentioned that they were going to do it after you had discussed it with them.

Hi Charles,
Hi Charles,

The piece "foreandaftadjustments3" - the U shaped part is tight with two screws on the rectangular shape. Maybe you could make the rectangular piece a bit rounded where it gets in touch with the U shaped piece. Or the U shaped part coul be rounded or just a litle V shaped on that edge. Or just insert some kind of balancing... thing, between the two parts, in the midle of the distance between the two screws... You'll than use the two screws to adjust the arm in the other plan?
The screws seems to be to close one to the other, though, for this...

You have two adjusting screws on one side. What about the other side? It seems to me that the screw used for the pivoting is getting some headache in there :) What metric is that particular screw? I hope is strong enough!

Anyway, is looking verry good. I'm already used to see this kind of work from you!