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Old June 14th, 2005, 04:18 PM   #136
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Leigh:

I would suggest that if your intention by putting up videos is to have members of this or other forums watch them and critique them for you, consider that you are asking them for a favor and thus it would be worth addressing if you are consistently putting up files that many feel are larger than average. I know from your previous posts that you yourself find it difficult to analyze Steadicam footage unless it is full-screen (I seem to recall you saying that you couldn't figure out what a specific problem was until you projected it, rather than watch it on a regular display--does my memory serve me correctly?) I don't believe I'm going out on a limb by suggesting that this is something you might have more of an issue with than many who would watch your videos.

Consider this: as an operator, you must be responsive to an image that is at most 7" wide; your onboard monitor. Any minute variation in framing should be apparent even at that small size once you are attuned to it; and that's not taking into consideration one's distance from the monitor, the ambient light conditions, that one is moving through space and carrying the weight of the rig, etc. etc. rather than relaxing in front of a computer. Should I mention that the original Steadicam monitors were 2.5"--imagine framing an anamorphic image within that diagonal!

I know you haven't included this in your videos, but I will encourage you again to practice your holds. It may seem counter-intuitive--why would you use a stabilizer for shots that could be done on a tripod?--but I promise you, at least half of operating a Steadicam device involves coming to a stop and holding still, and it is actually a very good test of the system to ensure that the operator's breathing or stiction/friction in the gimbal or arm is not translating into an "active" frame (i.e. unable to maintain a lock-off), plus, it's a lot more tiring and challenging than it would seem. At any given time in your shot, come to a graceful stop, hold for a good 5 seconds, and then equally gracefully push off into your next adventure. Try tilting up the side of a building and holding a lockoff frame; do combination pans and tilts (diagonal moves--not easy).

In addition, you should incorporate acceleration and deceleration into your practices. These are also exceptionally challenging, to keep the rig from tipping. In fact, the very easiest thing you can do with a rig is simply walk in a straight line at a constant speed, not concerned with the start or the stop, and that's what your videos mostly consist of. Walk as slowly as you possibly can for a period of time, then suddenly speed up into a jog, then hit the brakes, then creep forward again. And don't forget to do everything backwards as well as forwards!
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Old June 14th, 2005, 07:17 PM   #137
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Thanks everyone for the advice.

I will post a small screen video next time.

Regards
Leigh
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Old June 14th, 2005, 07:24 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh Wanstead
Mr. Job Scholtz did a really nice job to show that by encoding a very high encoding rate and the result is fantastic. :-)

Here is the link to his demo video.

Click here
Anyone watching the Mr. Job Scholtz video? I think the video quality is amazing and is this can be done without using mini35/pro35? What about same lighting but with a video lense? Will that still be good? What make a difference? Which effect most? Nice lighting? Or Pro35 with really dear movie/still camera lense?

By watching the video, the lighting is left side softlight box with back ground changing color lights.

TIA

Regards
Leigh
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Old June 14th, 2005, 11:24 PM   #139
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From the behind-the-scenes video, it's a 2/3" camera (Phillips?) with a PRO35 adaptor. It's a matter of opinion which makes more difference, the lighting or the adaptor; there's thread upon thread about this subject elsewhere in DVI...my opinion is that the lighting, composition and camera moves are more important than the DoF, but it's great to have that working for you as well.
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Old June 15th, 2005, 01:21 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Papert
From the behind-the-scenes video, it's a 2/3" camera (Phillips?) with a PRO35 adaptor. It's a matter of opinion which makes more difference, the lighting or the adaptor; there's thread upon thread about this subject elsewhere in DVI...my opinion is that the lighting, composition and camera moves are more important than the DoF, but it's great to have that working for you as well.
Hi Charles,

Thanks for the comment.

Do you still have the web url link I can read?

TIA

Regards
Leigh
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Old June 15th, 2005, 10:39 AM   #141
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Leigh,

I can't think of any specifically, but as recently as a week or two ago I recall someone listing in order of "importance" the factors that make DV look like film, or just good. They had placed DoF at the top and felt that nothing else, including 24p cadence, was as important. This sort of discussion has been going on in earnest in multiple threads for the past year or so, at least since the Mini35 became widespread and the homebuilt variations became all the rage.

My contention, after having seen numerous clips linked through this site that feature fabulously long lenses and languorous rack focuses that elicit squeals of envious delight, is that for many DV filmmakers, this is just another tool that is being embraced as the "next coming" simply because it is can be achieved mechanically, as opposed to the more elusive aspects of filmmaking--excellent composition, lighting, camera moves etc. As a Mini35 owner, I obviously have an interest in controlling depth of field, but I believe that a badly lit scene that happens to have shallow focus will be less watchable than a well-lit scene with a lot of depth of field.

If you like, you can watch the MiniDV portion of my reel: http://www.demoreelnetwork.com/chupap/index.shtml

The first few shots were done with a Mini35, the rest (starting with the swoop around the car) were not. Although the projects have very different looks, I don't believe the latter material looks "bad" because it has deep focus. In about a week the reel will be updated online and will have additional DV footage as well as some new segments elsewhere.
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Old June 15th, 2005, 11:53 AM   #142
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Charles,

Great shots on the DOP section. I hadn't looked at it before but WOW. The lighting is excellent and is the the compostion. At first I thought the "bungie jumpers" looked like you and your lady but upon further examination...nope.

Your steadycam exercises are going to be tuff to do but that's what separates the good from the bad. Hum...the good, the bad, and the ugly...I done all of those shots.

What camera did you use for the 24P shots?

OK, how is the training video going? I'm still going to "bug" you.

A question for you Charles and others...Does shooting in 24p (ie 100a) look different than converting from 30i to 24P in post (I have Vegas Video)? The reason I ask is that I just had a close encounter with the Sony HVR-Z1U and I like it. I like it a lot! I would sell my 100a and buy one if the 24p conversion in post looked the same or close. I suppose I will try the two different shots ands see for myself but I was interested in your thoughts as well.

Leigh,

Thanks for deciding to give us smaller file sizes. I'll be checking out your next clip. I've been interested in looking at your clips but didn't want to download 75 megs.

Tery
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Old June 15th, 2005, 12:00 PM   #143
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Thanks Terry!

The bungee jumpers were nominally Zach Braff and Sarah Chalke, the leads of "Scrubs"--but it was actually two stuntpeople who took the real leap. I was safely sequestered behind the controls of the Technocrane at the time.

The MiniDV footage is mostly DVX100a, but there are some XL1 bits in there too.

I haven't dealt with the conversion you refer to, so I'll leave that to others (I think there's been a good deal of discussion about this in the HDV forum).

Thanks for the bug on the Steadi video--we're in the final stages with the house remodel and that continues to take up all of my time.
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Old June 15th, 2005, 02:46 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Papert
Leigh,

My contention, after having seen numerous clips linked through this site that feature fabulously long lenses and languorous rack focuses that elicit squeals of envious delight, is that for many DV filmmakers, this is just another tool that is being embraced as the "next coming" simply because it is can be achieved mechanically, as opposed to the more elusive aspects of filmmaking--excellent composition, lighting, camera moves etc.
Marvelous view ;-)

Regards
Leigh
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Old June 17th, 2005, 07:49 PM   #145
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Hi Charles,

Just for your information, I am using the LCD on my jvc gy-dv5000 which is a 2.5 inch lcd.

Here is a test video I made this morning. Does that match your shot description? I mean stop and move and stop. Because the size requirement, I tried to keep it short, so no long pause.

Small size around 2mbytes encoded with wmv format

Click here

Full screen size around 9mbytes encoded with wmv format

Click here

Regards
Leigh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Papert
Leigh:

I would suggest that if your intention by putting up videos is to have members of this or other forums watch them and critique them for you, consider that you are asking them for a favor and thus it would be worth addressing if you are consistently putting up files that many feel are larger than average. I know from your previous posts that you yourself find it difficult to analyze Steadicam footage unless it is full-screen (I seem to recall you saying that you couldn't figure out what a specific problem was until you projected it, rather than watch it on a regular display--does my memory serve me correctly?) I don't believe I'm going out on a limb by suggesting that this is something you might have more of an issue with than many who would watch your videos.

Consider this: as an operator, you must be responsive to an image that is at most 7" wide; your onboard monitor. Any minute variation in framing should be apparent even at that small size once you are attuned to it; and that's not taking into consideration one's distance from the monitor, the ambient light conditions, that one is moving through space and carrying the weight of the rig, etc. etc. rather than relaxing in front of a computer. Should I mention that the original Steadicam monitors were 2.5"--imagine framing an anamorphic image within that diagonal!

I know you haven't included this in your videos, but I will encourage you again to practice your holds. It may seem counter-intuitive--why would you use a stabilizer for shots that could be done on a tripod?--but I promise you, at least half of operating a Steadicam device involves coming to a stop and holding still, and it is actually a very good test of the system to ensure that the operator's breathing or stiction/friction in the gimbal or arm is not translating into an "active" frame (i.e. unable to maintain a lock-off), plus, it's a lot more tiring and challenging than it would seem. At any given time in your shot, come to a graceful stop, hold for a good 5 seconds, and then equally gracefully push off into your next adventure. Try tilting up the side of a building and holding a lockoff frame; do combination pans and tilts (diagonal moves--not easy).

In addition, you should incorporate acceleration and deceleration into your practices. These are also exceptionally challenging, to keep the rig from tipping. In fact, the very easiest thing you can do with a rig is simply walk in a straight line at a constant speed, not concerned with the start or the stop, and that's what your videos mostly consist of. Walk as slowly as you possibly can for a period of time, then suddenly speed up into a jog, then hit the brakes, then creep forward again. And don't forget to do everything backwards as well as forwards!
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Old June 17th, 2005, 09:11 PM   #146
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Leigh.
Good looking stops and starts! very little penduluming!
You Lock-offs (AKA: not moving) are a little wobbly though. Once you are stoped, be sure not to bump the gimble. - Don't hold your breath when stopped though, you shoudl still eb able ot breath without difficulty!

Normally when dooing starts and stops it's a good idea to actually accelerate to a steady speed and hold that speed for a moment before stopping.

- Mikko.
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Old June 17th, 2005, 09:30 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikko Wilson
Leigh.
Good looking stops and starts! very little penduluming!
You Lock-offs (AKA: not moving) are a little wobbly though. Once you are stoped, be sure not to bump the gimble. - Don't hold your breath when stopped though, you shoudl still eb able ot breath without difficulty!

Normally when dooing starts and stops it's a good idea to actually accelerate to a steady speed and hold that speed for a moment before stopping.

- Mikko.
Hi Mikko,

Thanks for the advice.

Regards
Leigh
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Old June 18th, 2005, 02:05 AM   #148
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Leigh,

Watched the new and improved (smaller) video. Thanks for that.

The stop and starts are fairly good but the lock-offs need help as mentioned by Mikko. Not a critisism-just a comment.

A word of advise given to me by Charles P. When starting and stopping-feather the movement a bit so the starts and stops have a gradual effect. I watched Charles in operation and when he came to a stop he added just a little bit of movement to give his shot a professional effect.

I'm looking forward to more video from you that I can watch. I wish I had a good server like yours to show video and get helpful comments as I have a lot to work on. That might be coming with my new web site etc. I'm also having my gimbal made by a machine shop on their CNC machine.

CNC stands for Computer Numerical Control for those who read this and might be wondering what I'm talking about.

Tery
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Old June 18th, 2005, 02:46 AM   #149
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Hi Terry,

Thanks for the suggestion.

CNC machine is really cool. I look forward to purchase one which will cost around US$100,000 plus. All you need to do is input the data and the machine made the goods for you. ;-)

Regards
Leigh


Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Thompson
Leigh,

Watched the new and improved (smaller) video. Thanks for that.

The stop and starts are fairly good but the lock-offs need help as mentioned by Mikko. Not a critisism-just a comment.

A word of advise given to me by Charles P. When starting and stopping-feather the movement a bit so the starts and stops have a gradual effect. I watched Charles in operation and when he came to a stop he added just a little bit of movement to give his shot a professional effect.

I'm looking forward to more video from you that I can watch. I wish I had a good server like yours to show video and get helpful comments as I have a lot to work on. That might be coming with my new web site etc. I'm also having my gimbal made by a machine shop on their CNC machine.

CNC stands for Computer Numerical Control for those who read this and might be wondering what I'm talking about.

Tery
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Old June 18th, 2005, 03:47 AM   #150
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I made another video this afternoon. Still needs more practising.

Here is a picture of my house for an overview of my shooting environment.
Click here

Small size around 3mbytes encoded with wmv format
Click here

Full screen size around 69mbytes encoded with wmv format
Click here

Regards
Leigh
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