magiqcam - new gimbal

Ed Liew · September 29th, 2004, 07:45 PM

charles,

will do further testing when my camera comes back on tuesday.

thank you for the help again.

ed

Terry Thompson · September 30th, 2004, 12:13 AM

(Ed, I'm assuming you have a standard drop time going (between 2 and 3) seconds, as a longer drop time will make the rig more prone to acting as you described. That being the case, you definitely have a problem with your gimbal & should let John know right away.)

Charles,

I have a Glidecam 2000 as well as another sled and both do the same thing. In fact when I static balance the Glidecam and then pan 180 degrees, the thing becomes very back heavy. My drop time is around 2 seconds at the present time. I have tried to solve this problem for a while but I'm baffled! I haven't had any luck (or skill as the case might be).

I hope the Glidecam isn't at fault but it might be. Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Terry

Ed Liew · October 5th, 2004, 03:32 AM

just tried balancing the rig. and this is the result - http://visualline.7p.com/gimbal_leveling.html
what am i doing wrong?

ed

Charles Papert · October 5th, 2004, 09:36 AM

Ed:

Thanks for posting those. I'm assuming you've sent them to John also.

My best guess is that there is a linearity issue within the yoke of the gimbal, that the axes of rotation are not intersecting.

John should be able to take care of this issue.

The rig looks good otherwise. Your method of cable management from the top to the bottom is very interesting (stuffed down the handgrip)! Never seen that before. I had mentioned to John that having power and video travel through the center post would be ideal (as it is in the bigger rigs) but I think that will have to wait for the "deluxe" Magiqcam.

Once you get the gimbal issue worked out, you will likely want to start spin-balancing to make sure that the rig is in dynamic balance. You have a significant amount of mass there and it will help your operating to ensure that everything is where it should be. You would need to perform this without the cables in place however (they would prevent you from making a 360 on the docking stand).

Ed Liew · October 5th, 2004, 06:00 PM

hi charles,

thank you for the info. just got a reply from john and he ask me to try this "It looks to me that in most of the pictures, the camera is leaning foreward. Is this the case? If it is, I wondering if you might be able to pitch the camera to the rear slightly by removing a few weights from the front balance arm, and relocating it to the rear balance arm. This won't effect your static balance, and it might correct the foreward pitch."

will give it a try later and let you know the out come.

on the cabling, you are right to have the cable go through the post. if i drill a hole on the post to have the cable go through it, i might void the warranty of the rig. at the moment it does get in the way. anyway, with john capability, the 'deluxe' model should be coming along very soon, i hope.

thanks again.

ed

Ed Liew · October 5th, 2004, 08:36 PM

hi charles,

tested it out again according to john advice but still the same result. even tried shifting the camera to the back a little, results the same. i forgot to mention this, when hands off, from it setup point, it'll turn to the right but always stop at the same place. about 135 degree turn.

any ideas?

ed

Charles Papert · October 5th, 2004, 10:09 PM

Ed:

Anything one does to adjust dynamic balance affects static balance as well, including shifting weights from the front to the back. The tip-off to me is that you can achieve static balance in one position, then pan the rig, have it come to a stop and have it go out of static balance. That is not normal.

Ed Liew · October 5th, 2004, 10:40 PM

charles.
i'll wait for john reply. will keep you updated.
thanks again.

ed

Ed Liew · October 12th, 2004, 09:03 PM

i'm hoping that john, you are checking on these forum. have not receive any reply from you. if you are having problem with your server again, could you please post your answer here so that i can have my problem solve. really need an answer.

thank you.

ed

Wesley Wong · October 13th, 2004, 01:28 AM

Ed, a little OT question here.

Did you get the low mode too ? I got a couple of questions on that. Seems like I'm missing a monitor adaptor so that I can mount it on the top of the sled, but I don't know what it looks like but I think I'm missing it. Plus John has a vague manual which doesn't explain how to securely mount the camera onto the camera table on the low mode. There's a lot of space allowance so do I use a washer or something ?

Charles P. if you're in the know , please jump in to help me ?

p.s. why did I get the old gimbal ??

Ed Liew · October 13th, 2004, 04:40 AM

hi wesley,

i did not order for the low mode, can't help you on this.

ed

Ed Liew · November 9th, 2004, 05:15 AM

i managed to upload a video of my previous testing with the new gimbal. appreciate if both the "charles" can give me a clue on whats wrong with it so i can let john know. here is the link:

http://visualline.web1000.com/images...l_problem2.wmv

as in the video, i follow charles p instructions. as you can see, the sled tilted towards the front of the camera after the first 90 degree right turn and it also turn further to the right after hand off. at first i thought it was the wind blowing from a fan but after turning it off, still getting the same result each time. at the end of the 180 turn, the sled is totally off.
thanks.

ed

Charles King · November 9th, 2004, 09:03 AM

Here's my thoughts right off the bat. It's a case of axel mis-alignment of the pan bearing. I had that same problem when I made my first gimbal. Simply put Ed - The gimbal is mis-align. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

I think you should send the clip to John so he can see it.

Do you know how he made the axel alignment of the bearing? Not to blow you off this topic but check this video out of an HBS member who build his stabilizer using cody's plans. I'll provide the link to the HBS forum and at the bottom of the pics there is a link to a video he shot using the stabilizer. Just to let you know this is his first time.

The idea is to show you a well balanced system due to a well made HB gimbal: http://p200.ezboard.com/fhomebuiltst...picID=30.topic

Charles Papert · November 9th, 2004, 09:53 AM

thanks Charles, that was fun to watch. Footage looks great.

Cool looking rig that chap built! You guys are doing nifty things over there.

I think the only issue I see in that rig is that he's got way too much bottom weight for the GL camera. The gimbal is too low. Even though it would nominally balance out OK, it's a strange operating mass.

Charles King · November 9th, 2004, 10:20 AM

"The gimbal is too low. Even though it would nominally balance out OK, it's a strange operating mass."

Totally agree but hey, he's happy.

September 30th, 2004, 12:13 AM	#17
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	problems with static balance as well (Ed, I'm assuming you have a standard drop time going (between 2 and 3) seconds, as a longer drop time will make the rig more prone to acting as you described. That being the case, you definitely have a problem with your gimbal & should let John know right away.) Charles, I have a Glidecam 2000 as well as another sled and both do the same thing. In fact when I static balance the Glidecam and then pan 180 degrees, the thing becomes very back heavy. My drop time is around 2 seconds at the present time. I have tried to solve this problem for a while but I'm baffled! I haven't had any luck (or skill as the case might be). I hope the Glidecam isn't at fault but it might be. Any other suggestions? Thanks, Terry

October 5th, 2004, 09:36 AM	#19
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Ed: Thanks for posting those. I'm assuming you've sent them to John also. My best guess is that there is a linearity issue within the yoke of the gimbal, that the axes of rotation are not intersecting. John should be able to take care of this issue. The rig looks good otherwise. Your method of cable management from the top to the bottom is very interesting (stuffed down the handgrip)! Never seen that before. I had mentioned to John that having power and video travel through the center post would be ideal (as it is in the bigger rigs) but I think that will have to wait for the "deluxe" Magiqcam. Once you get the gimbal issue worked out, you will likely want to start spin-balancing to make sure that the rig is in dynamic balance. You have a significant amount of mass there and it will help your operating to ensure that everything is where it should be. You would need to perform this without the cables in place however (they would prevent you from making a 360 on the docking stand). __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

October 5th, 2004, 10:09 PM	#22
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Ed: Anything one does to adjust dynamic balance affects static balance as well, including shifting weights from the front to the back. The tip-off to me is that you can achieve static balance in one position, then pan the rig, have it come to a stop and have it go out of static balance. That is not normal. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

October 13th, 2004, 01:28 AM	#25
Wesley Wong Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 143	Ed, a little OT question here. Did you get the low mode too ? I got a couple of questions on that. Seems like I'm missing a monitor adaptor so that I can mount it on the top of the sled, but I don't know what it looks like but I think I'm missing it. Plus John has a vague manual which doesn't explain how to securely mount the camera onto the camera table on the low mode. There's a lot of space allowance so do I use a washer or something ? Charles P. if you're in the know , please jump in to help me ? p.s. why did I get the old gimbal ?? __________________ Do more, learn more

November 9th, 2004, 09:03 AM	#28
Charles King Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sweden Posts: 795	Here's my thoughts right off the bat. It's a case of axel mis-alignment of the pan bearing. I had that same problem when I made my first gimbal. Simply put Ed - The gimbal is mis-align. I could be wrong but I doubt it. I think you should send the clip to John so he can see it. Do you know how he made the axel alignment of the bearing? Not to blow you off this topic but check this video out of an HBS member who build his stabilizer using cody's plans. I'll provide the link to the HBS forum and at the bottom of the pics there is a link to a video he shot using the stabilizer. Just to let you know this is his first time. The idea is to show you a well balanced system due to a well made HB gimbal: http://p200.ezboard.com/fhomebuiltst...picID=30.topic __________________ Charles 'What we perceive to be may not be what we believe to be.'

September 29th, 2004, 07:45 PM	#16
Ed Liew Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 226	charles, will do further testing when my camera comes back on tuesday. thank you for the help again. ed

October 5th, 2004, 03:32 AM	#18
Ed Liew Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 226	just tried balancing the rig. and this is the result - http://visualline.7p.com/gimbal_leveling.html what am i doing wrong? ed

October 5th, 2004, 06:00 PM	#20
Ed Liew Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 226	hi charles, thank you for the info. just got a reply from john and he ask me to try this "It looks to me that in most of the pictures, the camera is leaning foreward. Is this the case? If it is, I wondering if you might be able to pitch the camera to the rear slightly by removing a few weights from the front balance arm, and relocating it to the rear balance arm. This won't effect your static balance, and it might correct the foreward pitch." will give it a try later and let you know the out come. on the cabling, you are right to have the cable go through the post. if i drill a hole on the post to have the cable go through it, i might void the warranty of the rig. at the moment it does get in the way. anyway, with john capability, the 'deluxe' model should be coming along very soon, i hope. thanks again. ed

October 5th, 2004, 08:36 PM	#21
Ed Liew Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 226	hi charles, tested it out again according to john advice but still the same result. even tried shifting the camera to the back a little, results the same. i forgot to mention this, when hands off, from it setup point, it'll turn to the right but always stop at the same place. about 135 degree turn. any ideas? ed

October 5th, 2004, 10:40 PM	#23
Ed Liew Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 226	charles. i'll wait for john reply. will keep you updated. thanks again. ed

October 12th, 2004, 09:03 PM	#24
Ed Liew Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 226	i'm hoping that john, you are checking on these forum. have not receive any reply from you. if you are having problem with your server again, could you please post your answer here so that i can have my problem solve. really need an answer. thank you. ed

October 13th, 2004, 04:40 AM	#26
Ed Liew Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 226	hi wesley, i did not order for the low mode, can't help you on this. ed

November 9th, 2004, 05:15 AM	#27
Ed Liew Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 226	i managed to upload a video of my previous testing with the new gimbal. appreciate if both the "charles" can give me a clue on whats wrong with it so i can let john know. here is the link: http://visualline.web1000.com/images...l_problem2.wmv as in the video, i follow charles p instructions. as you can see, the sled tilted towards the front of the camera after the first 90 degree right turn and it also turn further to the right after hand off. at first i thought it was the wind blowing from a fan but after turning it off, still getting the same result each time. at the end of the 180 turn, the sled is totally off. thanks. ed

November 9th, 2004, 09:53 AM	#29
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	thanks Charles, that was fun to watch. Footage looks great. Cool looking rig that chap built! You guys are doing nifty things over there. I think the only issue I see in that rig is that he's got way too much bottom weight for the GL camera. The gimbal is too low. Even though it would nominally balance out OK, it's a strange operating mass. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

November 9th, 2004, 10:20 AM	#30
Charles King Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sweden Posts: 795	"The gimbal is too low. Even though it would nominally balance out OK, it's a strange operating mass." Totally agree but hey, he's happy. __________________ Charles 'What we perceive to be may not be what we believe to be.'