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Old April 20th, 2005, 03:16 AM   #16
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The primary differences between low and high end system would be the design and to some extent the tolerances and materials used. I tried on quite a few rigs at NAB; the cheaper system's arms felt "springy" aka bouncy, and made it very hard to eliminate footsteps/pogoing. The high end arm (well, to me there is only one in this class: the Flyer) eliminates this, due to superior design. The new Tiffen arm that was demonstrated can lift 10 to 40 lbs, and was gorgeous (a whopping 32" boom range, biggest in the industry, and adjustable degree of isoelasticity).

Gents, this bearing play issue is alarming--it's definitely a big problem.
Even play that is essentially invisible to the eye will cause issues. John should correct this immediately.
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Old April 20th, 2005, 03:58 AM   #17
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hi matthew,
not able to do that as the center post on the gimbal seem to have sunken in a little. its totally misalign now. and to make matter worst, not one mail from john after i complaint about the missing thread on the gimbal ring.
as for the arm, i don't think it was design for heavy setup.
frankly, if john were to offer me money back, i would grab it this time round as i think i'm wasting my time with this rig. still i would have to lost the shipping cost which would come up to be us$700+. anyway, hope you'll have better luck with a reply from john as you are in the states.

ed
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Old April 20th, 2005, 01:38 PM   #18
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Hey Ed, sorry to hear all that. He's been selling a bunch of these units and if they are all this way I have to think that everyone is going to be having the same problems. I've written John about the problem. Hopefully he will ansewr when he gets back from NAB. I also see from the HBS forum that you are going to rebuild your gimbal. Hope that works out.

Charles P., do you know of anywhere in the LA area where I could rent a flyer? You've got me real curious now as to how much of a difference there is and how much is operator dependent. I've checked a few of the local rental houses but haven't found anyone with a flyer yet.

regards,
Matt
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Old April 20th, 2005, 02:07 PM   #19
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hi matthew,
just luck i guess. as for the rebuilding a new gimbal, it would have to wait as i just found out its not going to be cheap and the machinist will only work on it during his free time. not going as plan :o(
will wait to hear good news from your correspondance with john.

ed
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Old April 20th, 2005, 03:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Papert
The primary differences between low and high end system would be the design and to some extent the tolerances and materials used. I tried on quite a few rigs at NAB; the cheaper system's arms felt "springy" aka bouncy, and made it very hard to eliminate footsteps/pogoing. The high end arm (well, to me there is only one in this class: the Flyer) eliminates this, due to superior design. The new Tiffen arm that was demonstrated can lift 10 to 40 lbs, and was gorgeous (a whopping 32" boom range, biggest in the industry, and adjustable degree of isoelasticity).
Hi Charles Papert,

The flyer costs 6k which is around 4 to 6 times the price of panasonic gs400 minidv camera(depends where you buy it). I own a gs400 and I like it. I consider that the technology using inside gs400 will be far superior than flyer. I doubt average joe will make a firm buying decision to do that. Nowdays that cheap means popular, am I right? 8 )

Regards
Leigh
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Old April 20th, 2005, 05:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh Wanstead
I consider that the technology using inside gs400 will be far superior than flyer.


Leigh
Leigh, if this is the case, then why are you building your own stabilizer (which i *servearly* doubt will be superior to the Flyer)?

- Mikko.
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Old April 20th, 2005, 05:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikko Wilson
Leigh, if this is the case, then why are you building your own stabilizer (which i *servearly* doubt will be superior to the Flyer)?

- Mikko.
Hi Mikko,

Thanks for the question.

I look forward to offering a product which offers a choice at an inexpensive price to the community with good performance. 8 )

By the way, I checked http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=servearly and can't find the word servearly.

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Leigh
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Old April 20th, 2005, 06:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh Wanstead
I consider that the technology using inside gs400 will be far superior than flyer. I doubt average joe will make a firm buying decision to do that.
Huh? I'm sorry. Did I miss something? I don't understand the point of comparing a cameras 'technology' to that of a stabilizer rig. That’s like trying to compare your eyeball to your foot.

If I read between the lines I think your point is who in their right mind would spend $7k on a rig just to put a $1,200 camera on it. And that I agree with. Please correct me Leigh if I’m wrong.

I wholeheartedly agree with Charles’s thumbnail assessment of the differences between “low” and “high end” rigs. Not to put words in Charles’s mouth but like most things in life… you get what you pay for.

Now as to this Magiqcam issue. I have flown stabilizers on at least 3 - 4 dozen shoots over the years working for production companies in the US. Mostly Pro Vids and V16’s. However now that I’ve had my own business for a hand full of years I have been considering acquiring a stabilizer. Video production is not our primary business but creating digital content is. Much of our work is DVD and/or web based and contains video as well as a host of other things. I have an XL2, a PD150 and a few Sony TRVxxx’s in the arsenal. A few weeks back we picked up a job that required a stabilizer to be employed. I decided it was time to buy and stop spending money on rentals - so I started doing some research. I have read mixed reviews about the Magiqcam but mostly positive ones. I also looked at a V-16 and a Flyer. I heavily considered the amount of use we would be demanding from a rig and how often we would need it. For that very reason alone I decided on a Magiqcam. I ordered it last week. (Gulp!)

Having said that, I now have serious reservations and may consider canceling that order. I understood that Magiqcam was only a small 4-year-old company but I liked the fact that many people had talked directly to the owner and that he was receptive and responsive in providing help and correcting wrongs. Perhaps popularity is changing that situation. I also took note that they were producing a version IIa which tells me they have made advances in their design from the initial model. Apparently just not enough.

I am very interested to see what happens next. I surely hope John gets involved with this thread and provides some insight and a solution to this “big” problem. I truly do not want to cancel my order with them but I must look out for my on interest first and I can’t afford to be spending 2K on a “problem”.
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Old April 20th, 2005, 06:40 PM   #24
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hi mikko,
you should check out some of the video at hbs. i have seen some so well made, even my magiqcam don't come anywhere close to it in term of performance. or it could be just me being bias ;o)

ed
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Old April 20th, 2005, 06:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Clark
If I read between the lines I think your point is who in their
right mind would spend $7k on a rig just to put a $1,200 camera on it. And that I agree with. Please correct me Leigh if I’m wrong.
Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the post.

I thought it is hard decision for someone just have a $1,200 camera and plan to spend $7k on a rig. And it was hard decision for me around one year ago just have a $8,000 6kg camera and plan to spend $20k on a decent rig.

Regards
Leigh
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Old April 20th, 2005, 08:06 PM   #26
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Hi Liegh,

I agree and understand that thinking totally. If I made my living exclusively as a camera person making that decision would be much easier but still might cause a brain cramp or two. Unfortunately, I have not been able to justify buying a 7k rig (really about 9k in the end) for a 5K camera. Simply because we would not use it that often. My thinking behind getting a Magiqcam was that we spend about 2k a year renting rigs so why not capitalize that money into the business. Of course if our demand goes up I would have no reservations whatsoever investing 7~9k on a Flyer.
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Old April 21st, 2005, 01:09 AM   #27
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If this helps any, consider that support gear like tripods, heads and stabilizers will usually last for multiple generations of cameras. I have always advocated buying the absolute best fluid head that one can afford, as it will have a direct affect on the photography and a quality head will be around for many, many years. Stabilizers are a bit faster moving when it comes to new models, but still, there's no reason that one would not be happy for years down the line.

$6K may seem like an awful lot for a stabilizer for a $1200 camera, sure. But if your business flourished and you found yourself with a $10K HVX200 in a year or two, remember that the same $6K stabilizer will work just as well with this camera.
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Old April 21st, 2005, 01:59 AM   #28
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Thanks Charles, truer words were never spoken. Come to think of it I never had any regrets about dropping 2.5K on my Vinten sticks & head about 7 years ago. - and they have served me very well indeed. Also, as you implied, they are supporting a second generation of cameras for me now.

I’ve already expressed my reservations about having ordered the Magiqcam but I will wait until early next week before making a decision to move forward. John, I believe, is at NAB now and it’s only fair to let him have the opportunity to respond.
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Old April 21st, 2005, 05:09 AM   #29
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Woah hey. i guess my coment was porly worded...
I was mearly comenting that in my oppinion you can't even compare an in-camera steady-shot with a inertial stablizer. The foot and eye example was best. And i think that Leigh understood my response.

And and yeah, i'm also on HBS, in all 3 main categories.

- Mikko.
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Old April 21st, 2005, 08:29 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Clark
Hi Liegh,

My thinking behind getting a Magiqcam was that we spend about 2k a year renting rigs so why not capitalize that money into the business.
hi kevin,
thought was the same when i place an order for the magiqcam. but in my case, when my order arrived late, i have to rent a efp setup for two of my project. when the set did arrive, my expectation was, you really get what you pay. the feel were totally not the same. what i'm trying to say is, if you can't afford to buy the best, renting is definately a better option. and with no after sale support, even the best support system will not last, in my case again, after every test with my magiqcam, something bad will pop out. at the moment, i don't think magiqcam is up to par yet with rig like glidecam or even some home made rig. here is a link to a video i saw two week ago just to proof a point - http://www.ninehost.com/steadicam/ with some further improvement, in a year or so, maybe john can really say he has a commercial unit out for sale. not now.

ed
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