Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly H2

[Buba Kastorski]

Originally Posted by Silas Barker

Unfortunately the Canon 5Diii on my Glidecam 4000 is heavy and hard on my back. Wish I had a lighter system.

pilotflyH2 is an awesome handheld unit, but i wouldn't use it with anything larger then A7(x),
flying it with Sony a6300 is a joy, light, small, but yet very nice picture.
here is something i shot recently, there is one C100 shot, the rest is a6300 on Pilotfly H2, except for the phantom4 :)

Steph+John on Vimeo

[Charles Papert]

I haven't spent much time with gimbals since they emerged. I am admittedly turned off by the stories I hear about how long it takes to rebalance if you add anything or change lenses, how delicate the tuning process is and I also find the form factor notably awkward.

I believe the main draw is that it is easier to achieve a stabilized image with a gimbal than a Steadicam, in that the Steadicam takes many hours (days...weeks...months...years??) to achieve the level of finesse that a novice can achieve simply by picking up a properly set up gimbal stabilizer. However, fine control of pan and tilt is something that I think may possibly be equally hard between the two systems. Steadicams are immediately responsive to the operator, whereas gimbals in single-user mode have a slight delay, which is another reason I'm not particularly enthralled with the current implementation of that promising technology.

I personally think that both technologies are improved when the weight is transferred off the operator's arms, that the handheld version of both are best utilized for speed and agility vs finesse moves like the material with the band in the music video. A good example of that is that the operator in that video, Devin Graham, is best known for his action shooting, which is quite impressive. I found this work to be somewhat less so in terms of framing and horizons. It is actually a lot more challenging to do slow finesse work with a Steadicam than tearing after someone with a wide lens.

At this point in time, I still feel that the Steadicam is the better tool for nuanced work, when coupled with a quality arm and vest (I haven't been keeping up in the past few years but I'm fairly sure that the highest performing arms by a wide margin for the smaller stabilizers are still the Steadicam brand ones--their patented "isoelastic" design is much more effective than the competition). I've seen some beautifully done work on gimbals as well, but I don't think they are as effective when working in close with human subjects where immediate response to unpredictable factors is required.

One quick correction:

Originally Posted by Silas Barker

glidecam 4000 is only a 2 axis gimbal and does not reduce jitters completely)

The gimbal on the Glidecams and any other similar stabilizer is a 3 axis gimbal, which affects the angular axes of pan, tilt, roll. The spatial axes are left-right, side-side and up-down--the last one of which is the most bandied around of late because that is where handheld gimbals tend to reveal themselves. With a handheld Steadicam type stabilizer that axis can be pretty effectively dampened via the operator's own arm if they are good at it, but of course improved with a quality arm/vest combo.

[Buba Kastorski]

Originally Posted by Charles Papert

I haven't spent much time with gimbals since they emerged. I am admittedly turned off by the stories I hear about how long it takes to rebalance if you add anything or change lenses, how delicate the tuning process is and I also find the form factor notably awkward.

you should at least try it Charles, those things were made to be mounted on steadicam :)
wave looks very nice, a bit over my budget though :), if/when Chinese knockoff hits the market will get it for sure,
i think using one axis gimbal on steadicam is an ultimate combination for dead set horizon combined with the movement flexibility of steadicam ;
here is my first attempt to make them work together :)

DJI ronin m + red epic test footage - YouTube

[Charles Papert]

Hi Buba:

I do feel that the future of Steadicam (and gimbals) will be a mashup between the two, but I think we haven't quite seen it yet. I think the Arri (formerly Sachtler) Trinity is a great step forward in this regard. I have heard mixed reviews on the Wave from some who tried it at Cinegear

It's all somewhat academic for me as I don't operate Steadicam any more but I remain interested in the tech.

[Buba Kastorski]

Originally Posted by Charles Papert

I think the Arri (formerly Sachtler) Trinity is a great step forward in this regard.

he he, that one is top top top, i can only dream about setup like that,
what do you mean you don't operate anymore, like at all?
i'm gonna be flying till i can walk :)))
best!

[Charles Papert]

Originally Posted by Buba Kastorski

what do you mean you don't operate anymore, like at all?

Nope, not at all. Sold my rigs six years ago to focus on DP work and haven't flown since. I conventionally operate on commercials here and there but I enjoy having operators. Been working with Neal Bryant who is a phenomenal Steadicam operator.

[Buba Kastorski]

Originally Posted by Charles Papert

Nope, not at all. Sold my rigs six years ago to focus on DP work and haven't flown since. I conventionally operate on commercials here and there but I enjoy having operators. Been working with Neal Bryant who is a phenomenal Steadicam operator.

I see what you mean, i just saw his reel - fantastic work!

[Charles Papert]

Yup--and what's more, 95% of that reel was shot on a stock Master series (not considered to be one of the better arms or more rigid sleds). Neal has since moved up to an M1 and G70x arm and is only getting better!

Here's that reel for anyone else who is interested:

Neal Bryant Steadicam Reel 2016 on Vimeo

I think that what this reel helps indicate in this discussion is that a) in the right hands, a Steadicam can produce images as rock-solid stable as gimbals on their best day and b) the type of fine control of pan and tilt demonstrated here would be extraordinarily hard to do with a gimbal in follow mode.

I do however believe that if one is looking for a system that you can essentially pick up and go with a minimum of practice, better results will be likely be had with a gimbal.

[Steve Bleasdale]

Bought beholder ds1, within 30 minutes asked for a refund, this thing is only good for light cameras period, canon 70 d with 17-55 no good, Sony a7s ii with 24-70 not the best, gh4 not tried but now what, came single would imagine be the same, pilot fly h2 same so back to me hd 4000 glide cam unless someone tells me to get the ronin m and its miles better???

[Noa Put]

That's weird as the DS1 has a bigger payload (compared to the ms1) up to 1,7kg, why did it not work?

[Steve Bleasdale]

veering down to the left when the arm was pulled all the way to the right when balancing,flip the screen closed and manged to balance it but could not see the screen did not try the 50 mm as its smaller but need wider on the thing, pity the concept was all there,