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Still Crazy
You say you want resolution? The whole world is watching these digicams.


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Old July 9th, 2003, 01:38 PM   #61
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But that's my point. The CMOS of the Canon EOS 1Ds is the same size as 35mm film. Hence it's focal length multiplier is actually 1 (that is, a 20mm lens acts like a 20mm lens, not a 32mm lens.)

And also hence its price tag of a cool eight grand.
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Old July 9th, 2003, 01:53 PM   #62
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I purchased a 10D about a month ago. I'm using the 100-400 mm and
the 16-35 mm L series lens.
I like the results, but HATE canon's fileviewer software.
It's really clumsy, slow and . . . well, you get the idea.

SO, what I want is that plug-in for RAW images. What is it and where
should I go to purchase? I have PS 7.

Thanks!
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Old July 9th, 2003, 02:01 PM   #63
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If Iím not mistaken, Photoshop 8 will be coming out in a few months or so, and will support RAW image formats. If you wait until then, instead of paying for the plug-in, youíll have the latest version of Photoshop AND a built in plug-in. As for me, ill wait, being that I probably wont have my new camera for a couple of months. Unless someone wants to buy my current camera package, then ill have some money to put towards the 10D ;) lol...

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Old July 9th, 2003, 03:16 PM   #64
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Jacques, there is a plug-in for PS7 available from the Adobe site (here). It's $99.

As John stated, the plug-in is expected to be included in PS8, but I'm not sure of its expected release time.

Other alternatives include Yarc+ and Breeze-something-or-other.
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Old July 9th, 2003, 03:22 PM   #65
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Digital Photography Section?

This is another vote in favor of a digital photography section here. I have been shooting stills professionally for 18 years, now 70% of it is digital. It takes a community like this one to keep up with technology. A photography section would be a great asset.

DV Info net is the only board I monitor regularly, here is why;

1. The professional advice and attitude of its members.

2. The wealth of knowledge is amazing.

3. I work hard, I donít have time to be randomly cruising the net trying to sort through the garbage on other sites.

4. I believe your no alias policy is a great thing, anyone can click on my web button anytime to find out more about me and I look to see who other members are.

5. As a professional, some of the work I do is exciting; the majority of it is very boring! Guys here shoot because they are passionate about it, I come here because that passion is infectious and reenergizes me. Many of the non-professionals here have a technical understanding of things far beyond mine, I need their help.

I know of no digital photography site that can match this community, although I donít look at a lot of them anymore, too discouraging.

Steve

P.S. Buy the 10D Ė you wont be disappointed.
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Old July 9th, 2003, 03:53 PM   #66
 
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I just bought the Photoshop 7 RAW file plugin and it won't work for the 10D. It's not on the list of supported cameras. I'm sure this will get updated at the next rev but Adobe's customer support couldn't tell me when that would be. I'm in the process of evaluating IMatch from www.photools.com.
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Old July 9th, 2003, 03:57 PM   #67
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hmm, thats interesting, because I could swear that someone posted that the plug-in works with the 10D... :-/ hmm...dont tell me ill have to wait for a compatible plug in...
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Old July 9th, 2003, 04:16 PM   #68
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<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : The resolution and image quality of the prints rival what I previously made with medium format. Plain and simple. -->>>

Jeff's now changing his story. Before it was the 10D that rivaled medium format. Now it's his smallish prints.

I stand by original comment then. My 1MP Casio rivals medium format for 3x5 prints. Woopdedoo.
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Old July 9th, 2003, 04:21 PM   #69
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<<<-- Originally posted by John Garcia : hmm, thats interesting, because I could swear that someone posted that the plug-in works with the 10D... :-/ hmm...dont tell me ill have to wait for a compatible plug in... -->>>

There are patches for RAW converters that work with the D60 to enable then to support the 10D.

I'm not a Canon owner, but my understanding is that D60 owners like BreezeBrowser and CaptureOne. I use Adobe Camera Raw and like it a great deal.
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Old July 9th, 2003, 04:52 PM   #70
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<<<-- Originally posted by Nigel Moore : <<<-- Originally posted by Craig Jones : The fact is that current digital SLR's are largely limited by the resolving power of their lenses so until that's solved we won't see large increases in resolution "in the coming years". -->>>

I'm obviously being thick here, but since in most cases the lenses are the same and with the top of the range Canon the focal length multiplier is 1, where's the difference in the optics between digital and 35mm? -->>>

Yes, the lenses we are talking about are the same lenses that 35mm film cameras use. These lenses have their resolution limits and, believe it or not, the performance of today's digital SLR's push their resolving power. You can get more overall resulution by using a full frame imager, like the 1Ds and 14n, but they are expensive and come with their own problems. If you read the test quoted earlier in the thread, you see that the results indicate that the overall performance is dictated by the lens. Cropped sensor cameras did worse than 35mm, full frame matched it and medium format exceeded it. This is because the optics are "in the way" and is a testament to the supurb performance of today's films and digital SLR's.

The Kodak 14n has been reported to have overall resolution exceeding all but the finest 35mm film. The 1Ds matches it according to reputable reviewers. Noise performance and lack of grain are superior to film for all digital SLR's and help their images blow up to larger than ideal sizes.

Even though these digital SLR's share the same lenses with their film counterparts, the lenses don't perform the same. Digital imagers are actually a stack composed of an anti-alias filter (except 14n), a color filter, a microlens array, and the imager itself. This stackup causes optical problems not anticipated originally by lens designers and is one of the motivations behind the cropping factors of most dSLR's. Nikon started producing "digital optimized" lenses with the D1 and has now shipped its first "DX" series lens specifically made for digital. Canon, on the other hand, is pursuing full frame sensors and has had some quality issues relating to lens interoperability. Kodak has also suffered great problems. Olympus is taking a new tack with the development of an entirely new system specifically designed for digital (E-1, 4/3 system). You may wish to read up on the unique challenges of digital. The short version is that digital likes its light striking the imager orthogonal to the surface and today's film lenses don't do that.

The area digital SLR's need to improve is not actually resolution but dynamic range. Look at Fuji's developments in CCD's to see where that manufacturer is headed. Olympus, likewise, is trying to improve dynamic range in its 4/3 system. Foveon is taking a different tack with its full color imaging sensor. So far they remain the underdog but time will tell. On the resolution front, manufacturers will make progress by improving the sensors (more MP) and improving geometry. Expect resolution gains to be modest compared to the past.
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Old July 9th, 2003, 08:00 PM   #71
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There are patches to use the Canon 10D with Adobe RAW. They were posted on fredmiranda .com. If the instructions on how to patch it can't be found there do a search on Google, looking for the cached version. Any needing help with the Mac version email me and I'll try to help.

In my experience, slide film has a dynamic range of about 5 to 6 stops. In very controlled studio situations I've been able to get maybe 7 or a little higher. Color negative film usually allows me at least 8 stops of dynamic range.

I find digital to be very similar to slide film in both it's exposure characteristics and dynamic range. Digital cameras like the D60 and 10D have on average 5 to 6 stops of dynamic range. Through the use of Photoshop, this can be expanded in the shadow areas. Tremendous detail can generally be pulled from the shadows. However, like slide film (and DV) it is important not to blowout the highlights. Once the highlights are gone, very little can be done to recover any lost detail. This is basically true of slide film, where a 1/2 stop of over exposure and all detail is lost.
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Old July 9th, 2003, 08:10 PM   #72
 
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Yes, I just found the directions on how to modify the Adobe CameraRaw Plugin for the 10D and it works. The only problem is that you get erroneous color mapping since the mod uses the D60 mapping. It's not a problem, tho', because you can see the preview window to see what the sliders are doing. For directions on how to modify, go to:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1019
and do a search for EOS 10D. After you page thru a few threads, you'll find the right patch.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 12:03 AM   #73
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So when do we get a digital camera forum?
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Old July 10th, 2003, 01:53 AM   #74
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<<<-- Originally posted by Craig Jones : the lenses we are talking about are the same lenses that 35mm film cameras use. These lenses have their resolution limits and, believe it or not, the performance of today's digital SLR's push their resolving power. -->>>

So I think what you meant , Craig, when you stated earlier that "current digital SLR's are largely limited by the resolving power of their lenses", is not that they're limited in comparison to 35mm which uses the same lenes, but that they're limited in what they could technically achieve.

If this is the case, then you're earlier comment is no longer the contradiction that I thought it was and which confused me.

Thanks for clarifying.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 06:58 AM   #75
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Dylan -- I'm currently entrenched in NYC for a couple of trade shows; new forum in a day or two hopefully.
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