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Hardware, software, technique and workflow for live video streaming.


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Old January 17th, 2017, 08:09 AM   #31
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Hi Chris,

I don't disagree with any of that, although for my usual weddings have all cameras recording audio with the video, but the main audio is from the groom's lav and a close to Zoom H1 or Sony recorder. So not really a problem if one fails.

The problem with a live transmission and a recording of the stream and no in cam recording, is that the whole programme is on one output and if you lose that you are dead and buried. There has to be a some form of backup coverage for me to feel comfortable. To have that safety net, the only real answer is to have the cameras recording. At least if everything goes smoothly there is no extra work, but in an emergency you can at least save it with an edit session. Even the high priced software switcher options that have individual camera recording on the computer, are still reliant on the single system.

I have 3 Panasonic SD700/800s which record to card in HD and output through HDMI. They get used for B&C cams but could be enlisted back into a live recording/streaming scenario with the right adapters.

Roger
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Old January 17th, 2017, 05:30 PM   #32
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

I guess this issue is only limited to cameras that cannot record to card as normally one would use a cam that can output HDMI and record to card at the same time. If one is using conference cams or ones with just an output only then yes, you have to rely on the computer to record to HDD and the CDN to record the DVR from the stream. It all really comes down to what cameras you are using and what backup systems you need ... 2 webcams into a laptop makes the laptop the weak point. For one off events, I agree you need a source backup which means a card backup on camera and audio feed to a recorder too. You just have to decide how fail safe you want to be!!

What do others do to back up a live broadcast?
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Old January 18th, 2017, 04:09 AM   #33
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Ok I must admit after giving vMix a decent try I still prefer Studio for mixing. Even the free Studio version has features I would need the $399 vMix to achieve. With Studio I have unlimited audio channels which doesn't reduce the number of camera inputs so I can bring in 3 cameras, an external mixer and still have level controls for each input on the free version. Also graphics are unlimited too...I can have 4 different types of lower third graphics each with unlimited data (like vMix can) and then I can also have multiple stills to overlay on screen if the talent needs them plus Chroma Key as well with unlimited virtual sets too and all these don't count as inputs! Then I have a media channel which plays videos, ads or whatever I need to play live and I STILL have all my camera inputs intact

Yes I can use vMix and stream to LiveStream but I need to go thru their Producer software to do so otherwise I cannot find the event page on a list. I'm not shifting from LS in a hurry as the Event Page you can create for each client looks professional and is unique to the client and has a fairly safe (no secure) URL so it cannot be stumbled upon like on Facebook or YouTube.

However vMix is great software still ..just doesn't suit me as much as Studio especially because I can have my main camera cable free by using the broadcaster pro... admittedly they cost a bit more than a 15m HDMI cable and a decent converter box (HDMI>USB3) but it's not that much extra and way easier to setup
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Old January 18th, 2017, 04:58 AM   #34
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

I understand your view Chris and if you are comparing the free or basic versions I would agree. I think we are probably looking from slightly different viewpoints. You are already up and running, focusing on the live streaming and want to keep it simple whilst earning income as you are doing now. On the other hand, I am looking longer term, with the idea of live mixing and recording in place of my old analogue mixers, then streaming the recorded results, with the occasional live streaming. That means that I would be looking at the $350 version of Vmix, which I think is better value with basically unlimited inputs than the Livestream equivalent.

I'm still looking at Livestream though and wondered whether it will take 3 wired camera inputs in addition to audio inputs from more than one audio source?

Roger
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Old January 18th, 2017, 07:07 AM   #35
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Hi Roger

The free version will take 2 wired or USB cameras and 1 x remote camera then unlimited graphics on 1 channel and unlimited media on 1 media channel ... the free version cannot record onto your HDD but the CDN automatically records your stream anyway. Here are the differences between the free and paid versions https://livestream.com/studio/software

The paid version has 25 wired inputs and 10 remote cam inputs and all the other features too.

Our last multicamera run used 2 x conference cams (USB) and then the main cam was remote via a broadcaster. We also used left and right lower thirds plus caption screens on the media channel when the band took a break. Apart from not being able to live record to the HDD it didn't seem to lack any features.

Both versions have unlimited audio channels and unlimited graphics ..all you do is turn them off or on with a mouse click ... I also really like the crop feature on each camera input ..we were able to reframe (pan or zoom) in real time or save the framing into 4 presets ..very useful indeed if you need to switch framing on a camera.

I guess it's much like owning a car .. we all have different expectations and we drive what suits us.

Studio is still well worth a serious play though .. there is a lot more to it than meets the eye ,, that's why I spent a good time with vMix while evaluating it.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 07:49 AM   #36
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Hi Chris,

Just been playing with the free Livestream again, and apart from the annoyance of having to go online every use, I am still struggling to do things that seem very easy in Vmix.

Chroma keying for example, I can't find any references in the programme at all for overlaying a green screen layer on say a background clip, or bringing in a vital studio. The bottom thirds titling is nice and very easy to understand, update and use. The other thing that I can't find is how to bring in 3 cameras without the broadcaster. I tried my GoPro but I keep getting asked for my network password. Not sure if it is asking for a password for the GoPro which I haven't got a clue on, or for my home network password, which it won't recognize. The GoPro works fine with my iPad, Android pad, Android phone and Balckberry. Very confusing!

The Livestream website says that the free version has only 2 camera inputs plus one remote which I assume is through their own broadcaster unit. It says one media player, but does that mean only one pre recorded video track or only one at a time but as many as you want waiting?

Is there an intermediate paid version with more than the free one or is it a jump to the $799 one, which is all I can find? Livestream emailed me after I registered and asked for a good time to call me to discuss my requirements. They suggested 2 possible times which I was quite happy about, but they failed to ring me on either. As that was over a week ago it doesn't inspire me with confidence in their support.

Roger
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Old January 18th, 2017, 05:49 PM   #37
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Hi Roger

(1) Add a new layer in your GFX module and click on the paintbrush icon and in the designer click the camera icon
(2) select the camera you are using on the green screen with the gear icon then click the person icon to key out the background and add any virtual studio/background using the "push button" to the green screen camera already there....The auto key works pretty well but you can also manually key with icons in the designer ....there is a PDF manual which I downloaded.

There is no intermediate version it's either the free or the paid ..frustrating yes as is vMix but both companies are trying to make you buy the paid version so they make the free version just crippled enough to frustrate you! Nope only 2 direct inputs and one remote input on the free version so you need a remote camera to make up the 3rd cam....Studio has a lot of remote options ..click on the remote cam tab and look at them broadcaster is only one source of course. Again the PDF manual is very well written.

The Gopro must be a Hero 3 or 4 I think at least to work. Now, I really cannot understand why you are asked to connect online with Studio ...maybe mine auto connects to my home wifi but it never asks me and doesn't indicate any connection. I wonder if you have set/not set something in the stream tab regarding the connection ...make sure the provider is "Livestream" Mine only says "logging in" if I click the "Stream" tab and logs into my account automatically but only if I click the stream tab ...otherwise it loads normally ...does it ask you to log into your account or connect to the internet? If the latter then that's to check for updates which mine does automatically as well ...must be that ??

Both the GFX channel and the Media Channel can have unlimited inputs so you could import 10 videos into Media and select and play any one at any time.

Maybe vMix is more suited to your application.. I have no idea but at least we can choose!! What CDN are you thinking of using or will most be just recorded to HDD and no online video???
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Old January 19th, 2017, 07:10 AM   #38
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Hi Chris,

I've had another go at the Chroma Keying in Livestream, but I want to use a pre recorded video of a green screen interview, but the graphics editor seems to need a direct camera input. Any ideas on whether I can use a video instead of a camera as I don't want to do a live chroma key?

My GoPro is a Hero 3 and the programme recognised it but keeps asking for a password for the network but I can't work out whether it wants my router password or something for the GoPro.

Roger
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Old January 19th, 2017, 07:37 AM   #39
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Maybe you could do a screen mirror and try that. Run it in VLC then screen grab that. Might work might not.
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Old January 19th, 2017, 07:56 AM   #40
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Hi Donald,

Thanks for the suggestion, although I can already do what I need in Vmix. Your suggestion may work, but I was hoping that Livestream could do something similar to Vmx without another level of compromise. I don't want to shut the door on Livestream but am struggling to get it to do what I want as efficiently as Vmix.

Roger
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Old January 19th, 2017, 05:24 PM   #41
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Hi Roger

To be honest I have no idea at all. In a real life situation where would that be used (just for interest)

I guess a choice of switchers really depends on where you are streaming to also. With vMix I need the Livestream intermediate software to bring in the switcher and still be able to find my custom event pages which I cannot do direct from vMix so Studio is more convenient for me. You are initially using vMix as a live mixer to eliminate post editing rather than broadcasting out to a CDN so it seems to be an easier way and everything is about making things simpler surely?

The fact that I can create a custom page for each client is a big plus for me which attracted me initially to using them but then again there could be others who do the same with unlimited clients/views and a fixed cost.. I haven't looked yet. For what you are doing for schools maybe a hard switcher like the Roland feeding a monitor and going to something like an Atmos recorder might be easier as a solution so you dispense with the computer completely. It would be a lot easier to carry into a venue?
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Old January 20th, 2017, 04:05 AM   #42
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Harding View Post
Hi Roger

To be honest I have no idea at all. In a real life situation where would that be used (just for interest)

I guess a choice of switchers really depends on where you are streaming to also. With vMix I need the Livestream intermediate software to bring in the switcher and still be able to find my custom event pages which I cannot do direct from vMix so Studio is more convenient for me. You are initially using vMix as a live mixer to eliminate post editing rather than broadcasting out to a CDN so it seems to be an easier way and everything is about making things simpler surely?

The fact that I can create a custom page for each client is a big plus for me which attracted me initially to using them but then again there could be others who do the same with unlimited clients/views and a fixed cost.. I haven't looked yet. For what you are doing for schools maybe a hard switcher like the Roland feeding a monitor and going to something like an Atmos recorder might be easier as a solution so you dispense with the computer completely. It would be a lot easier to carry into a venue?
My requirement for a recorded green screen is actually very simple, I can record the green screen chat, then import it into Vmix, then do a running mix. That would include the pre recorded screen, which I can change camera angles on as it runs, feed in graphics and pre recorded live clips and record the whole thing as I go. I intend to make up a series of these which I can then drop into Facebook and our website and be able to update them quickly and easily. It's far quicker and easier than putting it all together as a conventional edit. It will also be very useful for corporate interview work, which may need a number of takes to get right.

I looked at getting rid of my analogue mixers and replacing with a digital hardware mixer to an external recorder, but the costs would be a lot higher without the ability to run in unlimited clips, graphics, virtual studio etc. It would work for schools, but not a lot else that we do. Any upgrades need to have the potential to be useable across the board rather than just for one limited area.

Roger

Last edited by Roger Gunkel; January 20th, 2017 at 04:07 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old January 20th, 2017, 04:28 AM   #43
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Hi Roger

Excuse my dumb brain but I take it you would record, say an interview or similar against a green screen with no frills on camera and then replay the clip and add all the fancy bits later ? That is quite a good idea as if you were doing it live and someone fluffed his lines you could simply reshoot but doing it live it means you would have to start from square one and then add everything all over again ...getting a clean clip on green screen is clever ..I get the idea now!

Yeah hardware mixers are over priced! Basically doing your example above you only need vMix and instead of doing an offline edit like we normally do ..you do a live edit BUT with a pre-recorded main clip of the people/person on a green screen. If I have it right then your only extra requirement would be a copy of vMix since you are not using live cameras. Sounds like you have found an ideal solution without too much outlay.

I wonder how much of your plan could be applied to wedding edits? If the couple want a wedding without any stream then it might be an effective way of recording a ceremony and reception??? All the post work then would be to transfer your already live edited video to the media the couple require with could be as easy as transfer from your edit computer to a USB ..minutes not days!!

Live weddings here are picking up nicely ..booked a bride last Thursday, this Wednesda, today and have another to see on Sunday ...once brides understand what they are getting they seem to like it and we also (after your suggestion) kept our prices at the same level as our old "shoot and edit" packages so we are working smarter not harder!!!
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Old January 20th, 2017, 05:22 AM   #44
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Forgot about the Chromakey in Studio.. Sorry!

OK what you do is download the Windows Remote App from Livestream and install it. This when running allows you to use any PC monitor (or even your switcher PC if you run two monitors like me) as a remote camera ...you just add a remote camera and choose the monitor and it becomes a remote camera.. the only requirement is that the computers must be on the same wifi network. It also can be used as a wireless remote if you plug a camera into a laptop and then connect the laptop to studio.

Chromakey is then easy as you select your camera source as Remote 1 so when you run the clip on the remote desktop or even your 2nd monitor it comes up as a camera source and of course can be keyed out!

Obviously the remote camera app needs to be installed on the remote computer if you are using another computer and not your 2nd screen so a setup to connect let's say a webcam wirelessly would be a laptop next to the webcam some distance away from your main computer but connected to the same wifi and you then have a wireless remote camera using a wired cam into the laptop and then a wifi connection between the laptop and main computer that has the switcher, Again you can run a green screen video on a remote machine and it will run in studio as a remote camera ... I'm now wondering what little devices you can get nowdays that have HDMI input and just plug in a wifi receiver ..For livestream it might be cheaper than a Broadcaster unit. ??
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Old January 20th, 2017, 07:22 AM   #45
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Hi Chris,

Some good ideas there for me to chew over. Just a thought, if you are using your main computer to stream out via wifi, won't it put a lot more demand on the system of you are also transmitting in from another device? Also how can you set up your main computer to recognize the outgoing hotspot, if you have configured it to recognize the incoming wifi from the remote cam/computers?

On the idea of camera HDMI in to a small capture device, then transmitting from that, there are a number of small games capture devices that will receive a camera in and convert to USB out, so it may be possible to pluc a wifi transmitter into the output. These include Elgato, Haupage, Black Magic and quite a few others.

Roger
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