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Hardware, software, technique and workflow for live video streaming.


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Old January 26th, 2017, 04:33 AM   #61
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

I went through the Vmix list of capture hardware and my particular Avermedia box is not listed. Does that mean that all the dozens of different converter boxes are sending different information out to the computer PC USB inputs? If that's the case, then it's about time that there was an industry standard that all have to follow, as trying to get everything talking is like trying to pick a way through an unexplored jungle without a map and both feet tied together!!

Even if you can get everything working, you are still reliant on trying to get a decent internet connection as Jeremy said, so it can still all fall apart at the last hurdle. I think I have come to the conclusion that the amount of variables, lack of standardisation and vagaries of the wifi connection have convinced me that at this moment in time, it's just not worth it. The financial outlay, many days and hours researching and the number of likely pitfalls and limitations, mean that the financial returns are going to be minimal at best. Others can pioneer and sort out the mess and I'll jump on when the ride is easier :-)

For the time being, I will concentrate on post edit streaming and downloading as a delivery option rather than the live mixing and streaming.

Roger
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Old January 26th, 2017, 04:57 AM   #62
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Hi Roger

I would have thought that USB was USB end of story ...I have used 3 different webcams on Studio plus I have connected to my phone, my tablet and another computer via wifi (but these must have the Livestream App) I might understand a high tech SDI capture card not being compatible but shucks USB!!! You can basically plug any USB device into a computer and it will be recognised so why can't software read it?

Just for interest vMix cannot stream to Livestream's CDN without the Producer software ! I just thought it would be awesome for your school stuff !

How much did the HDMI boxes set you back ..guess you can always sell them. Most of our wedding stuff is done just with an on-camera encoder which works well and we have a pretty good 4G network here with fast speeds ....our ground based internet connections are pathetic!!!

Sorry to hear you have thrown in the towel but with all the hassles I can see why!!!
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Old January 26th, 2017, 01:26 PM   #63
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Hi Chris,

The streaming of schools videos was the one thing that I could see being really useful, but put on the back burner for now.

The Elgato converter was 99 and the Avermedia 60, but I will either sell them or put them on the shelf to have another try in a few months.

The whole research on this though has been very enlightening and certainly live mixing and recording plus the virtual studio ideas will be ongoing. I'll also be watching what others are finding on the streaming front.

Roger
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Old January 26th, 2017, 06:38 PM   #64
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Thanks Roger

Point taken. My interest was sparked when a friend over on the East Coast was doing funeral services which sadly hasn't taken off that well here but I decided to apply it to wedding ceremonies initially as we have a lot of overseas people that get married here or people who have a lot of family either in the UK or New Zealand. Australia has a lot of immigrants I guess so being able to "invite" them to the ceremony is a plus for brides. The one we are doing this afternoon actually has family in the USA.

With the massive influx of wannabe videographers here and dirt cheap gear the conventional market was really saturated (photogs also offering video as more and more DSLR's can do HD video) it does put us in a different niche market and is becoming popular so I'm not having to compete with every Tom Dick and Harry for business. We had a bride ask for a videographer for this November last month on FaceBook and I counted 61 responses within an hour!

Regardless, when you get the time, I would appreciate any of your findings on getting a HDMI>USB box to "talk" to either Studio or vMix or even OBS

Have a good weekend!

Any other posters have a different setup that they find good? Maybe Roger's interest will be re-sparked? Post setups that work for you that don't cost a fortune!!

Last edited by Chris Harding; January 26th, 2017 at 07:58 PM.
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Old January 27th, 2017, 03:31 AM   #65
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

I just don't know what's wrong. Both work on my laptop windows 10.
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Old January 27th, 2017, 04:28 AM   #66
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Hi Donald,

It would be great if you could go through the process of how you get them to be recognised. Whether you use the included software or just the drivers, what settings you use etc. I may be missing something, although looking on the Vmix forums it seems that a lot of people are having compatibility problems.

Roger
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Old January 27th, 2017, 06:05 AM   #67
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

First off. I'm using Xsplit Broadcaster. This was installed first. Then I intalled all the Elgato editing stuff and driver. A few weeks later installed all AverMedia software. Both show in Xsplit. Maybe I should try the Vmix free trial and see what happens. PS I did try two Elgatos but only one showed. Somebody did report using two of the Elgato 60 HD cards working as 1 and 2 on OBS.
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Old January 27th, 2017, 08:15 AM   #68
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Do you need the Avermedia recording software installed for Xsplit to recognise the box, of just the drivers?

Roger
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Old January 27th, 2017, 08:17 AM   #69
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

I installed everything.
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Old January 27th, 2017, 07:21 PM   #70
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Surely what is needed here is a simple test program that you can use to make sure that the adapter is actually working ? I found Yawcam Yawcam - Yet Another Webcam Software ... I wonder if that would help to see if that a video signal is actually coming into the computer and it's set up correctly.

Surely the HDMI>USB box should provide the same video output as something like a Logitech webcam?

Wouldn't that be a start to make sure we actually have video coming in??? If I plug in a webcam and run yawcam it shows nothing but I then have to select the cam from the device list and it works so would that also work if you have video coming in via the convertor box?

Another quick question ..if you plug the USB side into a port does Window "see it" ??

All very frustrating!!
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Old January 31st, 2017, 12:27 AM   #71
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

I was doing a Google and found that Vmix does not like Direct draw which both boxes output. Have you tried with Xsplit or other programs.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 01:33 AM   #72
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Hi Donald

I'm sure Roger said that also Livestream Studio didn't show the device in the drop down list. I would have thought that these convertors would "emulate" a USB type of camera yet it seems they don't

If you buy any Avermedia gear for a while they were offering a limited subscription to XSplit so it's pretty obvious that it works with XSplit but maybe not with others

It's really very strange that all HDMI>USB boxes don't simply appear as a USB camera in all software!! Do these boxes come with any sort of recording software? Maybe you have to use that to actually get a video signal ?

Probably better to stick with something that you know works with the switcher you enjoy using ....or use a hardware mixer like the Roland ....Final thought is use a hardware based mixer and bring the HDMI into your convertor and then stream out with the software they supply ... I have never had an issue cos I send my main feed to Livestream Studio wirelessly from a Livestream Broadcaster and then use USB cams for cutaways.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 04:45 AM   #73
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Using the Avermedia recording software, I could record the output from my Panasonic HD cams and from the FZ1000 through the box. Vmix and Livestream both recognised the box as inputs but wouldn't accept a signal, just saying there was an error. I downloaded Xsplit but it seemed very limited for mixing so never thoroughly tried it.

As Chris said, a USB signal should be pretty much universal, but when it comes to video it appears not. I have spent days trying to get something useable, but it doesn't inspire me with confidence in using any of the hardware or software in a live environment if I can't do it in my own home.

The hardware mixer route would be easy to use and setup and inputs seem to be standardised, so why can't it be standardised in converter boxes and software? The trouble with hardware switchers/mixers is that they are expensive pieces of kit for limited use. I changed from analogue switchers and live mixing years ago when multi stream NLEs became affordable, but software live mixing seems to give nowhere near the reliability and ease of setup that I was used to with analogue. As the technology constantly moves on, it seems to be becoming more and more fragmented.

Roger
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Old January 31st, 2017, 05:13 AM   #74
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

I"ve very quickly learned over the last few weeks that multi camera live streaming is not something that is currently easy to set up or particularly reliable in operation without big budgets and broadcast priced equipment. I have also become concerned that my attempts to get some sort of live streaming under way have led to me following a direction that would lead to greatly reduced production values.

I completely understand Chris's use of streaming for immediacy and availability to remote viewers in his area, but using one main camera and a good quality webcam for cutaways, is not really a direction that excites me. A live stream broadcaster and a phone to broadcast the live action is brilliant, but I feel like I have to take a step back here rather than running like a lemming over the new must have cliff.

Only a few months ago on this very forum, there was a discussion about why you couldn't produce quality wedding work with one camera, with a couple of recorded cutaways to drop into the edit, even though it might have been alright in the early days. However the streaming direction, is really offering exactly that, limited main camera coverage with the odd cut away and seems to be offering immediacy but at a quality cost. So have we been getting it wrong for so long when all brides really want is some quick footage of their wedding as it happens rather than the cinematic production. Alternatively, is it a new immediacy just like selfies and instant video on the phone that is adding a viable simple alternative package to what we offer?

For years we have all been working hard to get cinematic qualities to wedding video, with multi cameras, sound recorders, sliders, dollies and sophisticated editing. Now we are moving into the realms of 4K, and ever more sophisticated production values after hours of editing. Perhaps streaming is just another tool in the armoury, let's hope it doesn't fragment an already limited wedding video market even more.

Roger
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Old January 31st, 2017, 06:50 AM   #75
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Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming

Hi Roger

Totally understood. If I was looking towards continuing with producing stunning cinematic wedding videos then I would agree with you totally but I'm not. For me it all got a bit too much when to compete you need 4 cameras, two assistants and at least a stedicam, crane and slider along with days and days of editing. Then along came the famous drone footage which meant buying a drone and 4K camera, qualifying as a pilot just to be able to complete with the opposition.

I decided to go the other direction and stick to a simple two cam setup (wireless with broadcasters) and two conference cams added at receptions and create a new market which is proving very popular AND I could sell all the fancy gear AND dispense with days of editing. Sure it's a simpler approach but there is a market for it! We actually don't broadcast to remote areas at all..there is no reception in rural Australia so most of our broadcasts are back to the UK, USA and New Zealand to family and friends there. I can actually do a single cam shoot of a ceremony with no switching (no power on the beach!!) so it's just an FZ2500 and a broadcaster streaming to our own 4G wifi on a huge stand about 50m away so we get a decent signal. No phones are involved at all ..Our connection is thru a dedicated 4GX Advanced II wifi modem.

Yes it's a new market completely but a huge amount of interest is being shown and it's enthusiastically received (Our Saturday beach ceremony had over 300 excited local and UK viewers) If I put up a conventional cinematic highlight video that I have carefully crafted over 2 days I'm lucky to get 50 views!!

I think the answer here to to stick to one system and one CDN to ensure compatibility if one does it and really, set up costs are often less than setting up a cinematic wedding gear list especially if one needs stedicam, sliders and 4K camera drones. I honestly don't think it's a profitable "optional extra" for the conventional wedding videographer at all as it's a complete system ... We have completely dropped traditional video from our packages and only do live broadcast weddings now ...I don't think trying to do both is feasible so that's why I see your point!

I purely mentioned it for theatre performances/school plays etc etc because it would saves heaps of edit time but can see you don't do enough of them to justify new capital expenditure.

Hope all this makes sense to you??
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