Streaming a live auction at DVinfo.net

Chris Harding · March 22nd, 2017, 01:22 AM

Hi Guys

Is there any way to avoid latency when streaming something like a live auction. On Livestream.com the video lags about 17 seconds behind the live action so that's obviously a no go for overseas bidders as by the time they phone in a bid, a local bidder could have beaten them to it.

Are their any CDN's that can provide live video that's almost in sync with the live action ..I'm sure a few milliseconds wouldn't be an issue but a long lag defeats the purpose of sending a live feed to overseas buyers.

Any bright ideas?

Bruce Dempsey · March 22nd, 2017, 03:03 AM

nope
expect 30 seconds.

Chris Harding · March 22nd, 2017, 05:00 AM

Thanks Bruce that's brutally honest! My average on livestream seems to be 17 seconds but of course that doesn't affect the viewer as they are not there. I don't have an issue with the delay at all in all my broadcasts but I have a client who does property auctions and he needed the direct interaction. I already have told him it's not going to work but figured it was worth asking!!

Steven Digges · March 22nd, 2017, 08:32 AM

Latency Sucks is the cover article on Streaming Media magazine this month. I have the paper copy but have not read it yet. Here is the link to the on line version:

JanuaryFebruary 2017 - Streaming Media Magazine

Steve

Andrew Bower · March 22nd, 2017, 09:12 AM

Chris,

Due to the inherent latency caused by transcoding, try looking into systems designed for video conferencing, but just use it for one-way communication.
Think Google Hangouts, but only one-way.
Very low latency, sometimes low quality too - but it should be OK if you are only sending one video stream.

We created a pier-to-pier application for government meetings where they wanted to allow people from different cities to provide live public comment. It was basically like Skype (but it worked every time). We used a regular telephone conference call as a backup and sometimes the conference call audio lagged behind the pier-to-pier video! So I would consider that to be very low latency. ;)

Andrew

Donald McPherson · March 22nd, 2017, 02:34 PM

If it's only the one client. You could phone him and have the audio live and he could watch the 17-second delay video separately. Also let the auctioneer know what's happening he mich give you extra time to put your / his bid in. Other than that it's Skype as suggested above.

Josh Chesarek · March 22nd, 2017, 03:58 PM

Well HLS pulls 3 segments before playback so if you get your segments down to 1 or 2 seconds (I have done 2 seconds before and your server is configured for low latency then you could see Streams only 6 seconds behind. Even when you add a CDN to the picture if you tune their configs to only cache the minimum time needed for the m3u8 files you should have a delay of 7 or 8 seconds. This would allow you to stream to ios, desktops and even most androids. If you went with RTMP (limited to desktop) then low latency can get down to just a few seconds. I have done one to many on a single wowza server and had a 1 second delay via RTMP

Seth Bloombaum · March 22nd, 2017, 07:01 PM

Won't a bidder need to be on the telephone anyways, to make a bid?

I'm a streaming fanboy and all, but, if there's an existing technology that is rock solid and low-to-no latency, and the stream has many potential points of failure... and will even bidders accept streaming?

Were it me, and determined to do it, I'd look at a Wowza server to desktops as Josh suggests. Though W configuration is not for the masses.

Chris Harding · March 23rd, 2017, 08:12 AM

Thanks Seth ..that's what I told him ..they always have a local bidder taking overseas bids so he would have to maintain a phone link anyway ..maybe he wants to be able to see the overall mood of the buyers and bids ... I passed on the offer as I don't want to have to create a completely different setup just for the odd auction that might have international bids and yes, I believe they would still need a physical body on site to bid on what the remote buyer tells them too !

March 22nd, 2017, 01:22 AM	#1
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Streaming a live auction Hi Guys Is there any way to avoid latency when streaming something like a live auction. On Livestream.com the video lags about 17 seconds behind the live action so that's obviously a no go for overseas bidders as by the time they phone in a bid, a local bidder could have beaten them to it. Are their any CDN's that can provide live video that's almost in sync with the live action ..I'm sure a few milliseconds wouldn't be an issue but a long lag defeats the purpose of sending a live feed to overseas buyers. Any bright ideas?

March 22nd, 2017, 03:03 AM	#2
Bruce Dempsey Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Atlantic Coast Canada Posts: 599	Re: Streaming a live auction nope expect 30 seconds.

March 22nd, 2017, 05:00 AM	#3
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Streaming a live auction Thanks Bruce that's brutally honest! My average on livestream seems to be 17 seconds but of course that doesn't affect the viewer as they are not there. I don't have an issue with the delay at all in all my broadcasts but I have a client who does property auctions and he needed the direct interaction. I already have told him it's not going to work but figured it was worth asking!!

March 22nd, 2017, 08:32 AM	#4
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Re: Streaming a live auction Latency Sucks is the cover article on Streaming Media magazine this month. I have the paper copy but have not read it yet. Here is the link to the on line version: JanuaryFebruary 2017 - Streaming Media Magazine Steve __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

March 22nd, 2017, 09:12 AM	#5
Andrew Bower Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 58	Re: Streaming a live auction Chris, Due to the inherent latency caused by transcoding, try looking into systems designed for video conferencing, but just use it for one-way communication. Think Google Hangouts, but only one-way. Very low latency, sometimes low quality too - but it should be OK if you are only sending one video stream. We created a pier-to-pier application for government meetings where they wanted to allow people from different cities to provide live public comment. It was basically like Skype (but it worked every time). We used a regular telephone conference call as a backup and sometimes the conference call audio lagged behind the pier-to-pier video! So I would consider that to be very low latency. ;) Andrew

March 22nd, 2017, 02:34 PM	#6
Donald McPherson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Aberdeen Scotland Posts: 815	Re: Streaming a live auction If it's only the one client. You could phone him and have the audio live and he could watch the 17-second delay video separately. Also let the auctioneer know what's happening he mich give you extra time to put your / his bid in. Other than that it's Skype as suggested above.

March 22nd, 2017, 03:58 PM	#7
Josh Chesarek Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 978	Re: Streaming a live auction Well HLS pulls 3 segments before playback so if you get your segments down to 1 or 2 seconds (I have done 2 seconds before and your server is configured for low latency then you could see Streams only 6 seconds behind. Even when you add a CDN to the picture if you tune their configs to only cache the minimum time needed for the m3u8 files you should have a delay of 7 or 8 seconds. This would allow you to stream to ios, desktops and even most androids. If you went with RTMP (limited to desktop) then low latency can get down to just a few seconds. I have done one to many on a single wowza server and had a 1 second delay via RTMP __________________ Simple Thought Productions - Life @ 30,000 Words per second

March 22nd, 2017, 07:01 PM	#8
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Re: Streaming a live auction Won't a bidder need to be on the telephone anyways, to make a bid? I'm a streaming fanboy and all, but, if there's an existing technology that is rock solid and low-to-no latency, and the stream has many potential points of failure... and will even bidders accept streaming? Were it me, and determined to do it, I'd look at a Wowza server to desktops as Josh suggests. Though W configuration is not for the masses. __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

March 23rd, 2017, 08:12 AM	#9
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Streaming a live auction Thanks Seth ..that's what I told him ..they always have a local bidder taking overseas bids so he would have to maintain a phone link anyway ..maybe he wants to be able to see the overall mood of the buyers and bids ... I passed on the offer as I don't want to have to create a completely different setup just for the odd auction that might have international bids and yes, I believe they would still need a physical body on site to bid on what the remote buyer tells them too !