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Old February 26th, 2008, 08:24 PM   #16
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I am fairly new to making videos, my question when reading this is, why is a wedding video requiring two cameras, two operators etc. around 2000-2500 dollars for a 30 minute video, and a 10 minute single camera instructional video is 3000-10,000 dollars? Is it a matter of what the market can bear? A level of difficulty? Not trying to hijack the thread, just curious. also, Jeff, how much did you actually charge the customer, if I may ask?
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Old February 26th, 2008, 09:38 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mark Bournes View Post

Ultimately there are a lot of factors that go into budgeting, but for $30,000 for a 30 minute show/dvd you can still make some $$$$ depending on how much work has to go into the project. If you charge $30,000 and you have to travel to 4 different lo-cals around the world, hire 4 shooters, sound guys, producers, editors, lawyers and so on...$30,000 may not be enough.

On the other hand if it's you and maybe a grip shooting the entire thing, and editing it yourself, then maybe you can do it for $15,000 and still make money.

Each situation is unique.
The instructional video that Jeff showed is most like your last example so take your $15,000 for 30 minutes divide it by 3 and you have 5K for ten minutes. So I agree its all in depth of the project and 1k per minute would not be a good rule of thumb for this particular video.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 10:35 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mark Bournes View Post
I'm not saying this is the rule of thumb, each situation/job is different, but as a guideline, a $1000 per finished minute is fairly standard. I was only agreeing with Greg based on my experiences as well.
I didn't mean it to be a cast in stone price... more like a starting point in the evaluation of each production. Obviously, a simple production would require less. Every market is different also.

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Old February 26th, 2008, 11:01 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Mark Bournes View Post
I'm not saying this is the rule of thumb, each situation/job is different, but as a guideline, a $1000 per finished minute is fairly standard. I was only agreeing with Greg based on my experiences as well.
Ok, no worries. Just couldn't see anyone telling a client a flat rate per minute for a product. :)
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Old February 26th, 2008, 11:10 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Allen Plowman View Post
why is a wedding video requiring two cameras, two operators etc. around 2000-2500 dollars for a 30 minute video, and a 10 minute single camera instructional video is 3000-10,000 dollars? Is it a matter of what the market can bear? A level of difficulty? Not trying to hijack the thread, just curious. also, Jeff, how much did you actually charge the customer, if I may ask?
Excellent question!

A wedding video is a much simpler beast to shoot than taking an idea or a script and turning it into a video. It's basically a 1 hour event. You pop up your cameras, mic the groom or bride, shoot, and go home to edit. If you are shooting the reception, you show up for an hour and do the same thing. Sure it requires some planning, but once you've done a couple, you've kind of got the gist of it.

Before I get flamed, yes, I've shot wedding videos before. :)

Here's a wedding video:
2 shooters + camera rigs for a half or full day: $250-$500 each
Editing - a straightforward cut between two cameras is easy, a good editor can cut it in half a day. Add a half day for dropping in music, FX and titles: $400-$1000
DVD mastering/burning time: $250 + $X per disc.

Perception of value is part of it, but that's the gist.
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Old February 27th, 2008, 02:24 AM   #21
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Someting I haven't really seen mentioned in this thread explicitly, so I'll state the obvious: there are two sides to pricing; what it costs and what it's worth to the client. The "what its worth" side is the more interesting of course.

This has to do with benefits to the client. For instructionals that may the potential savings in training, labour flexibility, production errors or even limiting liability.

The more you address potential benefits in your video/script the more it will be worth. If it is just a documented step-by-step, it is going to be limited. It depends on the clients intended goals and if you can 'upsell' this to a better product.

If they'd recently had many production errors or there is a legal side to their problem, you could possibly charge a multiple of the $1000/min.

The reason for a per minute average is that we're not business consultants, and we cannot get in to accounting to tally all (potential) benefits for every possible project.

The thing is that if you engage the client and have an eye out for his needs, you will have much more "upwards potential" then if you just produce "standard" step-by-steps for which you are more bound to a cost-based calculation. This is also because you will have little to set you apart from the competition.

For this particular video I believe around the $5k mark is the maximum if you produce it from proposition to finish. If you're just shooting and doing (straigtforward) editing, maybe even as low as $2k.

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Old February 27th, 2008, 08:14 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Allen Plowman View Post
I am fairly new to making videos, my question when reading this is, why is a wedding video requiring two cameras, two operators etc. around 2000-2500 dollars for a 30 minute video, and a 10 minute single camera instructional video is 3000-10,000 dollars? Is it a matter of what the market can bear? A level of difficulty?
This is the exact reason I no longer shoot weddings. Now we're 100% business and organizations. Besides wha't already been mentioned, here's my take on the difference:

1. Weddings are easier to book - I can easily shoot one wedding a week. Getting business work takes more work, they are fewer and futher between. So the price difference can be made up in quantity.

2. Weddings take much less pre-production time. There are no scripts, no long meetings (well, there shouldn't be.)

3. CG and animation requirements are nil, or much less than business video.

4. There's more money available. In business you're typically dealing with managers and budgets, they don't have a personal connection to the money. Weddings are typically paid for by someone's own hard-earned cash.

5. There's a lot more competition for weddings - including amateurs and beginners and that drives down the price.

And most importly:

6. Everying, from apples to jet airplanes, are priced mainly on what the market will bear.
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Old February 27th, 2008, 09:06 AM   #23
 
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I typed a lengthy reply, clicked on "Preview Post" and was asked to sign in again, and the posting was lost!

So briefly, anyone submitting bids without a script is doing himself and the client a disservice. It's like asking a contractor to give you a bid on building your house without him seeing the blueprints.

When people ask me, "How much does it cost to make a video?" I ask them, "How much does it cost to build a house?"
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Old February 27th, 2008, 09:36 AM   #24
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One thought on the wedding video comparison. (Full disclosure - I do not to weddings but have shot numerious live events)

One thing to consider is risk of being able to complete the job for the client - there are no re-takes in a live event like a wedding. You blow the ring exchange or the kiss at the altar and you have one p-o'd client. Equipment failure, Uncle Ernie stepping in front of your camera, sun going behind a cloud, accidently bumping the tape door open, tape problems etc. All things that are easily and cheaply dealt with in a commercial or industrial shoot - disaster in a wedding.

Hat's off to our collegues who make a living with weddings.
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Old February 27th, 2008, 09:47 AM   #25
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A note on the 1-2k per minute rule of thumb. I like to use that quote when someone asks me "How much will it cost to make a video for my company?" They are always a bit surprised, but it gives me a 'base expectation' to whittle away or build upon.

"Look a thirty second spot can cost a hundred thousand dollars for TV... and that's just producing it. A ninety minute 'archive' of an event can cost a grand if it's just 'hit record' and forget it. It really all depends on the script, and production factors like locations, sound, lighting, graphics - so let's sit down and talk about your needs, shall we?"
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Old February 27th, 2008, 10:33 AM   #26
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Jeff,

I can't get the video to work. Nor do any of the links on the page.

When I go to your homepage, the sample videos will not play either.

The Windows media player is sort of greyed out and un-responsive.

Using Internet Explorer.
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Old February 27th, 2008, 11:24 AM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by Richard Alvarez View Post
"Look a thirty second spot can cost a hundred thousand dollars for TV... and that's just producing it. A ninety minute 'archive' of an event can cost a grand if it's just 'hit record' and forget it. It really all depends on the script, and production factors like locations, sound, lighting, graphics - so let's sit down and talk about your needs, shall we?"
Exactly. I've had potential clients come to me thinking they can get their 60-minute video done for under $1000 ("Gee, I've got my own video camera.").

On the other side of that same coin, I once lost a job because I didn't charge enough!
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Old February 27th, 2008, 11:37 AM   #28
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A lot depends on how well established you are, if you are just starting out then the experience is worth more than the money and you don't want to over charge in case you don't get it.

For example i have a shoot this weekend for a music video thats going on MTV2 and im using the HDW750 with a steadicam master both of which i have never used before. Im used to using my glidecam V8 rig which is a considerably smaller rig, and the only way to progress to the big rigs is to get the jobs like this one. I was offerd £200 per day (around $400 per day) which for a steadicam operator is buttons and i know im getting bumped but the experience is worth more to me than the money.

My advice would be to be reasonable with your pricing to begin with. As you get more work and more experience you can raise your rates to suit.

BTW im surprised they let you go ahead with the video without asking for a quote first.

Andy.
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Old February 27th, 2008, 11:59 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Andy Graham View Post
BTW im surprised they let you go ahead with the video without asking for a quote first.
I could be wrong Andy, but I got the impression that Jeff had already charged for the video but wanted our opinion on rates so that he could fine tune his rates for future projects, based on feedback from this actual project (after the fact).

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Old February 27th, 2008, 12:15 PM   #30
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I could be wrong Andy, but I got the impression that Jeff had already charged for the video but wanted our opinion on rates so that he could fine tune his rates for future projects, based on feedback from this actual project (after the fact).

-gb-
Lol I see, he never mentions having charged them already. I got the impression he was looking for a number to throw at them.

I thought somethig wasn't adding up.

Andy.
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Last edited by Andy Graham; February 27th, 2008 at 12:47 PM.
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