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Taking Care of Business
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Old December 18th, 2009, 09:08 PM   #46
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Thank you for a very complete and rational response

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Emery View Post
They aren't competing for the same customers as you, are they?
My point here is that I do believe they are. I believe that a company that introduces a "bargain basement" business model is going to create a niche market where the INITIAL handful of response MAY be of low calibre BUT folks begin to "compete" more and more to "win" market share and prove their worth, throwing more and more "free" assets at a project in a pissing contest that no one wins and we as creative and technical professionals lose by the overall value of our work being devalued.

I never set out to "win" an argument or debate - I solely set out to educate the other party of a side of the discussion that they may not be aware of or consider to the same degree that I do. And I do appreciate your virtual "olive branch".

And for the record - my CONTINUED and CONTINUAL usage of the term "professional" is not intended to stratify myself or others above any other video makers; it is solely to denote those that earn a significant portion of their living wage from video related pursuits - a very important factor to consider in any debate SOLELY because it helps to understand where someone is coming from and why preservation of a profitable business model is so important to me and my fellow "professional" video makers.

In the spirit of the season, good tidings and thank you for a good debate. Here's hoping that those entering the business, whether as full timers or as someone just testing the waters, can find some wisdom in our communal experiences.
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Old December 19th, 2009, 05:09 AM   #47
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that free video deal isn't a bad deal. I shot one spot for them, and the paperwork turned out to be a big pita. BUT, i could probably shoot 2-3 free videos per day and make more
per week at $225 a spot than I do at my salaried job. I think I shall go soliciting. My
gear is just sitting in the closet right now anyways.
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Old December 19th, 2009, 09:06 AM   #48
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Scott, since you already shot your "qualifying" free video and got paid (I hope) then they should be calling you with shoots. You are in Lexington, Kentucky which I assume would have an average customer base. They claim they have plenty of work to go around (at least they did in the webinar I attended).

I am getting ready to start pounding the streets for my 1st Free Video for TurnHere (that is free for the customer but I will get paid if TurnHere accepts it). But it was my impression that this opportunity helps to qualify you as a TurnHere shooter.

Did they tell you that you had to shoot more than 1 to qualify yourself? I thought the whole purpose was two-fold: 1 - to help promote TurnHere's special and 2 - You can use this special to help get qualified. They did tell me I would have to shoot one or two during our last phone conversation (it went up from 1 to 2).

I know at least one representative of TurnHere is aware of this thread. I won't name names, but they may or may not choose to respond and explain or clarify misconceptions.
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Old December 19th, 2009, 12:29 PM   #49
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I’ve been following this thread from the beginning and would like to know from a TurnHere Shooter who actually ended up receiving regular paid jobs. It seems to me that the shooter has to do a lot of work in order to ‘so call qualify’. Gets paid a pittance for it along a promise of future work. Anyone got more than five jobs from TurnHere?

Sure it wouldn’t be too bad if you were getting 2/3 gigs a day five days a week, but is anyone getting even close to that? I doubt it! I think they like just having shooters qualify as they can pay a pittance, sure if they are really stuck, which I’m sure they are at times then they’ll use a shooter on there list and roll with the extra cost, but how often is that?
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Old December 19th, 2009, 01:08 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Dickerson View Post
I am getting ready to start pounding the streets for my 1st Free Video for TurnHere (that is free for the customer but I will get paid if TurnHere accepts it). But it was my impression that this opportunity helps to qualify you as a TurnHere shooter.
Tom, just so I'm clear. At best you will make $225 for your video IF Turnhere likes it and IN ADDITION you are now doing their marketing for them by pounding the pavement? Please let us know how many hours you put in getting that shoot and be sure to factor in the cost of your gear, software, etc. so we'll have an accurate indicator of what you made per hour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Dickerson View Post
I know at least one representative of TurnHere is aware of this thread. I won't name names, but they may or may not choose to respond and explain or clarify misconceptions.
I should hope so. I submit that Turnhere makes their money on the constant turnover of starry eyed videographers who mistakenly believe that if they shoot a job every day they could make a living. The reality is that the client list is finite and the need for repeat/updated videos is almost nonexistent . Additionally, Turnhere keeps your raw video and uses this stock footage to repurpose your work and create other commercials that cost them almost nothing. As Shaun has pointed out and I've learned from a long time in this business even at the low end of the spectrum this is not a sustainable way for a videographer to make a living and helps none of us in the broader video world.
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Last edited by Rick L. Allen; December 19th, 2009 at 04:03 PM.
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Old December 19th, 2009, 01:59 PM   #51
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There are a ton of these ad delivery sites around. I would not be surprised if most of these sites that deliver video ads are gone when the money they raised is gone. I would bet the sales staff that these sites employ is geared toward hooking more investors, not selling their product. The only possible profit would be by selling the company to google or microsoft for much more than they are worth. Lala Media was "valued" at 180 million and Apple bought them for 18 million which included something like 14 million in cash funding that was left - which brings the actual value to 4 million. I think I read that they were going through half a million a month so their days were numbered. Warner Bros. had invested 20 million in the company and just wrote off 11 million of that investment.

Has anybody here ever had their buying decisions influenced by one of these ad sites? Sooner or later their investors will figure it out.

It's kind of like Paystar who told their investors they would sell 1.2 million Mac clones and didn't even sell 700 clones - you know they were just writing out their weekly paychecks from the capitol they raised.

My advice is that if you can knock on doors and sell something like Turnhere you can make a lot better money by selling your own services or for that matter anything else. Sales is a very valuable skill!

I wish I had it...
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Old December 19th, 2009, 02:15 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Spahr View Post
Sales is a very valuable skill!

I wish I had it...
Funny you should mention...

THAT is the professional development I am working hardest on right now...
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Old December 19th, 2009, 10:43 PM   #53
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I wonder why you would sell to TH to make $225 when you could do the entire thing your self for a min of $1000 and give them a video that they can used when ever where ever they like without having to pay a monthly fee. If I was an owner I would rather pay a one time cost of 1-2 thousand bucks and have a video I can put on my website, on you tube have on a TV in my business then pay a monthly fee to have the video on one site only.
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Old December 20th, 2009, 12:25 AM   #54
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That is of course the rub. The national company will charge probably a similar fee to the local provider, but the national provider will place (in my biased opinion) unnecessary restrictions (both technical and legal) on the use of the video, most likely tied to a subscription service of some sort.

Whereas if the business had contracted directly with someone in our position, then their ability to use the video would most likely be nearly unlimited, and as the primary provider, we would bend over backwards to form a lasting business relationship with the company.

But the national company is the one tied in to all the big money yellowpages companies (both print and digital) and so their marketing money was what brought in the client in the first place.
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Old December 20th, 2009, 06:16 AM   #55
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the first spot i did for them was NOT a freebie, they actually called me with a client.
I have not been called since despite them saying they loved the spot.
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Old December 20th, 2009, 11:05 AM   #56
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For others reading this - TurnHere's policy is that YOU get paid $200 or $225 (I guess depending upon your location) for shooting their free video promotion as long as they accept your work. All video work done for them has to be done to acceptable standards. That seems very reasonable.

Like I mentioned before, this is deal is not for everyone. I am more interested in seeing how many people have actually been called back for regular shoots.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 01:07 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin Bellows View Post
I wonder why you would sell to TH to make $225 when you could do the entire thing your self for a min of $1000 and give them a video that they can used when ever where ever they like without having to pay a monthly fee. If I was an owner I would rather pay a one time cost of 1-2 thousand bucks and have a video I can put on my website, on you tube have on a TV in my business then pay a monthly fee to have the video on one site only.
Ding Ding Ding. I was doing this BEFORE I even HEARD about Turnhere. Turnhere has
the advantage of having 'national' contacts as they are contracted by Yellowpages and
such to provide their videos for them......this gives clients the perceived benefit of
'national exposure'. But really, this thread seems to be about the value placed on
video work. I think that one of the reasons people may do this, is the crappy economy.
If you are having problems getting work, to many people making a couple hundred
dollars can help keep the 'wolves' from the door. We all do what we have to to survive.
That being said, my general feeling is similar to Shaun's in that I think the pay is
very subpar. However, as I said, I did do ONE of these shoots, and it wasn't very hard
and I DID get paid. It helped me make my house payment that month, so I'm not
going to complain. That being said, this is not the kind of pay I am looking for, or
would normally accept. So, I guess I can see both sides of the argument here.
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Old December 29th, 2009, 12:45 AM   #58
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Alright I just had to chime in here. I've done work for Turn Here going on three years now. No it's not high paying but for someone like me it works. I haven't had time to set up and track down clients for a true business lately so the occasional job from them is a nice change and a little extra money. As for having to do all the leg work for them that's just not true. Besides a few days ago posting their link for a free video (which they do pay you for) I haven't approached any business (if I did I would charge them the money to make the video.) TurnHere has always called me offering jobs. If I don't feel like taking it or if I have something going on I don't have to do it. Also the $200-$225 price isn't quite right either. I've been paid more than that for a couple of videos and I know they pay more depending on what the video is or who the client is. I'll admit TurnHere isn't for everyone but for me I like the extra cash for not a lot of work. Also it is a very good way to find some clients and TurnHere has no problem with you doing work for those people as long as you let them know on that particular job you're doing work for TurnHere. Okay I've said my peace. Just thought everyone should know a little more before bashing them, yeah it would be great to get paid a little more but for what it is it's not really all that bad
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Old December 29th, 2009, 10:42 PM   #59
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I assume the $200-225 is paid 1099, no taxes, social security, medicare, taken out. So at the end of the year you pay more taxes because your considered both the employer and the employee. $x isn't the same as get $x as a W2, plus of course no health insurance and no unemployment and no points towards social security.

What about the time it takes to capture the video to your computer? You shoot an hour it takes and hour to capture.

I understand for some of you who work for TH, its better than nothing and expands you contacts for your own business, but I still think your downplaying the amount of time involved from start to finish.

1 hr travel time (30 min each way with traffic. could be less could be more)
1.5 hrs setup, shooting and breakdown
1 hr capture
1-2 hrs edit
.5 hr upload

5-6 hrs if you're efficient for $200-225 ($35-45/hr pre tax income)

Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; December 29th, 2009 at 11:33 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2009, 10:52 PM   #60
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I do agree with you Pete that it does take some time to complete even a one minute video for them. Uploading the video really doesn't take all that long because the files aren't that large. If I had regular clients no I probably wouldn't be doing work for TurnHere because of the pay but as I said for me the occasional work is nice until I have time to get a business started and do this full time
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