Beer signs in the bar

Chris Hurd · August 19th, 2005, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Rench

Do many 5 to 15 minute short films make it to distribution?

Off-topic question -- please post it in a new thread. Thanks,

Marco Leavitt · August 19th, 2005, 10:26 AM

Cool links Richard, but I didn't see anything even remotely related to accidental product placements like the beer sign in question. I also have to question whether large companies even bother sending cease and desist letters over things like that. You'd think we'd be hearing all kinds of anecdotes if that were the case.

Richard Alvarez · August 19th, 2005, 10:35 AM

Marco,

See my new thread "Will I Get Caught?" for my thoughts on why you don't often hear about the little guys.

The other post speaks primarily to intentional use. Incidental and accidental use are always iffy. Like I said in my earlier post. Driving past a McDonalds, or getting into a Ford Mustang are low/no risk. SETTING the film in a McDonalds or claiming all Mustangs are hazardous are a huge risk. The devil is in the details.

Again, if you can avoid, remove, alter or minimize, do so.

Marco Leavitt · August 19th, 2005, 12:18 PM

On a side note, I've always wondered if Criterion had to secure a release for the very prominent use of a bottle of Johnny Walker Black in the DVD edition of the orignal version of Diabolique. You might say that product played a crucial role in that movie. ;)

Nick Hiltgen · August 19th, 2005, 06:02 PM

if they're neon signs a little electrical tape can go a long way. Just think back to your younger days when a "B" became an "A" by just blocking out the bottom portion of the letter. Of course I never did that, but I know people who did...

Paul Tauger · August 19th, 2005, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emre Safak

What about the ambient music? Surely a bar will have recognizable songs playing in the background.

Do a search on my name and "incidental reproduction." I've discussed this a lot, here. Short answer: reproducing ambient music in this context will be copyright infringement, absent a fair use defense.

Rick Bravo · August 21st, 2005, 06:16 PM

Hey Nick!

That's a perfect example of "Greeking"!

RB

Charles Papert · August 21st, 2005, 06:56 PM

I'm always fond of checking out the creative greeking done by the art department on the various shows I work on. I recall a massive front loader used in one scene having the brand name"Caterpillar" writ in large letters down the side; it became "Oaterpillar" with a bit of black tape...!

If you take a look at the shot from "Scrubs" on my DP reel (here), around 2:15 in or so, check out the bottle on the left side of the screen--it might look like it says "Corona", but read again...

Keith Loh · August 21st, 2005, 09:42 PM

My favourite set sign in a bar was in Blade II but it didn't appear in the theatrical cut. If you watch the DVD commentary the very entertaining Guillermo del Toro keeps on referring to a sign they had over a peep show hallway called "F---ingham Palace". It sounded like they had a gas making that movie.

Charles Papert · August 22nd, 2005, 12:39 AM

That's a funny one! On "Office Space", the art department surprised Mike Judge with the sign (quickly glimpsed in the movie) of the main character's apartment complex: "Morningwood Apartments". He loved it.

Dylan Couper · August 22nd, 2005, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Papert

"Morningwood Apartments". He loved it.

The Simpsons used Morningwood Penetentiary in one episode. You like gag signs, that's the show for it.

Jerry Porter · August 24th, 2005, 06:27 AM

Just out of curiosity how did they get away with a moview like "Supersize Me"?

Marco Leavitt · August 24th, 2005, 06:36 AM

I've wondered that too. Maybe he got away with more because it was a documentary? Also, imagine if McDonald's had sued. They would have looked like they were trying to censor the movie. It would have been a PR disaster. They were obviously very afraid of that movie.

Bud Younke · August 25th, 2005, 07:21 AM

The discussion so far has been pretty much spot on to what we found, the one thing mising tho is any discussion of how to get the clearances rquired to be able to show the logs/containers. It took us 2 -3 weeks to collect the clearances we needed from brewers etc when we began filming the The Underground TV. Most of the major brewers we dealt with had an agency which handled their product placement. We contacted several dozen different companies for permission and had no refuslas. The releases were everything from a couple of relatively simple paragraphs to three pages of requirements. ( And the three pages were pretty simple to comply with in our case - excessive drunkenness, drugs and other illegal activites, bad light were all prohibited ) The toughest part was tracking down the agent for specific products. None of the clearances cost us anything and of course with our 400,000 home TV market, we didn't even consider asking for a placement fee LOL...
Start out with the corporate web site - that is where we found most of the initial information about who to actually contact for the clearances. And when you find one of the agencies, ask them if they know who handles product xxx. We found a couple of agencies that way also.
If I remember correctly, Miller Brewing and Pepsi were both handled by Davie-Brown entertainment http://www.davie-brown.com/ so there is one to start out with.
It's not all that difficult, it should be just one more step in your pre-production process to ensure your projects success

Eirik Tyrihjel · August 27th, 2005, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Porter

Just out of curiosity how did they get away with a moview like "Supersize Me"?

I am not a lawyer (I haven´t seen "Supersize me" either), but it´s a documentary, and as long as the filmmakers can prove what they claim, McDonalds can´t hurt them.

The following is just my opinion, one fact and a sigh...
I personally think that if you stick a huge neon sign up somewhere high on a pole in a city (or crowded area), it´s your wish for that sign to be seen, in real life, film or photos, and it´s you who must blame yourself for any use of your sign... In Norway where I live, whoever put that sign up has no court case whatsoever! (And Norway is not a banana republic without copyright laws.)

August 21st, 2005, 06:16 PM	#37
Rick Bravo Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 574	Opa! Hey Nick! That's a perfect example of "Greeking"! RB __________________ "The future ain't what it used to be." Yogi Berra. www.rbravo.com

August 21st, 2005, 06:56 PM	#38
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	I'm always fond of checking out the creative greeking done by the art department on the various shows I work on. I recall a massive front loader used in one scene having the brand name"Caterpillar" writ in large letters down the side; it became "Oaterpillar" with a bit of black tape...! If you take a look at the shot from "Scrubs" on my DP reel (here), around 2:15 in or so, check out the bottle on the left side of the screen--it might look like it says "Corona", but read again... __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

August 21st, 2005, 09:42 PM	#39
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	My favourite set sign in a bar was in Blade II but it didn't appear in the theatrical cut. If you watch the DVD commentary the very entertaining Guillermo del Toro keeps on referring to a sign they had over a peep show hallway called "F---ingham Palace". It sounded like they had a gas making that movie. __________________ -- Visit http://www.KeithLoh.com \| stuff about living in Vancouver \| My Flickr photo gallery

August 22nd, 2005, 12:39 AM	#40
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	That's a funny one! On "Office Space", the art department surprised Mike Judge with the sign (quickly glimpsed in the movie) of the main character's apartment complex: "Morningwood Apartments". He loved it. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

August 25th, 2005, 07:21 AM	#44
Bud Younke Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Altoona, PA Posts: 28	The discussion so far has been pretty much spot on to what we found, the one thing mising tho is any discussion of how to get the clearances rquired to be able to show the logs/containers. It took us 2 -3 weeks to collect the clearances we needed from brewers etc when we began filming the The Underground TV. Most of the major brewers we dealt with had an agency which handled their product placement. We contacted several dozen different companies for permission and had no refuslas. The releases were everything from a couple of relatively simple paragraphs to three pages of requirements. ( And the three pages were pretty simple to comply with in our case - excessive drunkenness, drugs and other illegal activites, bad light were all prohibited ) The toughest part was tracking down the agent for specific products. None of the clearances cost us anything and of course with our 400,000 home TV market, we didn't even consider asking for a placement fee LOL... Start out with the corporate web site - that is where we found most of the initial information about who to actually contact for the clearances. And when you find one of the agencies, ask them if they know who handles product xxx. We found a couple of agencies that way also. If I remember correctly, Miller Brewing and Pepsi were both handled by Davie-Brown entertainment http://www.davie-brown.com/ so there is one to start out with. It's not all that difficult, it should be just one more step in your pre-production process to ensure your projects success __________________ http://theundergroundtv.com Unsigned music television

August 19th, 2005, 10:26 AM	#32
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Cool links Richard, but I didn't see anything even remotely related to accidental product placements like the beer sign in question. I also have to question whether large companies even bother sending cease and desist letters over things like that. You'd think we'd be hearing all kinds of anecdotes if that were the case.

August 19th, 2005, 10:35 AM	#33
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Marco, See my new thread "Will I Get Caught?" for my thoughts on why you don't often hear about the little guys. The other post speaks primarily to intentional use. Incidental and accidental use are always iffy. Like I said in my earlier post. Driving past a McDonalds, or getting into a Ford Mustang are low/no risk. SETTING the film in a McDonalds or claiming all Mustangs are hazardous are a huge risk. The devil is in the details. Again, if you can avoid, remove, alter or minimize, do so.

August 19th, 2005, 12:18 PM	#34
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	On a side note, I've always wondered if Criterion had to secure a release for the very prominent use of a bottle of Johnny Walker Black in the DVD edition of the orignal version of Diabolique. You might say that product played a crucial role in that movie. ;)

August 19th, 2005, 06:02 PM	#35
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	if they're neon signs a little electrical tape can go a long way. Just think back to your younger days when a "B" became an "A" by just blocking out the bottom portion of the letter. Of course I never did that, but I know people who did...

August 24th, 2005, 06:27 AM	#42
Jerry Porter Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Satellite Beach, Fl Posts: 784	Just out of curiosity how did they get away with a moview like "Supersize Me"?

August 24th, 2005, 06:36 AM	#43
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I've wondered that too. Maybe he got away with more because it was a documentary? Also, imagine if McDonald's had sued. They would have looked like they were trying to censor the movie. It would have been a PR disaster. They were obviously very afraid of that movie.