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Old May 27th, 2006, 05:40 AM   #31
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Sounds good to me ,Greg. I decided to pay for the repair so that I couldat least have the cam back in working condition. In the meantime I can figure out what I want to do vis-a-vis the guy who sold it to me,sony, reporting to the BBB, small claims court, or whatever.
Lesson learned.
Thanks
Bruce S. Yarock
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Old May 27th, 2006, 06:21 AM   #32
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Sony Producucts

I Don 't want to seem the Devil's advocate, here, but the very fact that you sourced the product at $400 less than retail would suggest that it may have been a risky investment. Hey if it worked Ok .. but it didn't so maybe its -difficuolt to reclaim from your position from here but good luck!!
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Old May 27th, 2006, 08:20 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Seeman
I think Sony's game is that if the dealer isn't "authorized" they won't honor the warranty.
Just to clarify one more time, this isn't "Sony's game," it's any major camcorder manufacturer, Sony is not treating this situation any differently than Canon, Panasonic or JVC would have. If Bruce had bought a problematic Canon, Panasonic or JVC camcorder from that Ebayer, his experience would have been exactly the same. With *any* camcorder manufacturer, warranty repair service is offered only to those customers who buy from authorized dealers. I'm not saying that's the right thing to do; I'm just saying that's how it is. If I were Bruce, I'd go after the Ebay seller... and then I'd never buy a new camcorder from an Ebayer again (it can be a great resource for used gear though).
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Old May 27th, 2006, 09:27 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd
Just to clarify one more time, this isn't "Sony's game," it's any major camcorder manufacturer, Sony is not treating this situation any differently than Canon, Panasonic or JVC would have. If Bruce had bought a problematic Canon, Panasonic or JVC camcorder from that Ebayer, his experience would have been exactly the same. With *any* camcorder manufacturer, warranty repair service is offered only to those customers who buy from authorized dealers. I'm not saying that's the right thing to do; I'm just saying that's how it is. If I were Bruce, I'd go after the Ebay seller... and then I'd never buy a new camcorder from an Ebayer again (it can be a great resource for used gear though).
And just to add to Chris' excellent post, that goes for camera rebates as well. We seem to definitely get warned from the manufacturers that rebates and promotions will only be honored if purchased by an authorized dealer. Look at the current XLH1 Firestore promotion, or the A/B battery promotion on the JVC HD100 as examples.

-gb-
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Old May 28th, 2006, 10:03 AM   #35
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See this from PC World.

http://pcworld.about.com/magazine/2012p057id105833.htm

This is why I asked if his serial number had been removed. If it's a good serial number, Sony should provide Bruce the service.

Bruce, maybe you should contact Grace Aquino consumerwatch@pcworld.com
Note in Grace's article she contacted Greg Dvorken of Sony. Mr. Dvorken states that as long as the consumer has a bill of sale/invoice, Sony would perform warranty service.

There is absolutley nothing I've ever seen by Sony promulgating information that they do not honor valid serial numbered units from unauthorized dealers. While they do discourage such purchases I do not believe that affects the warranty (as long as it's a legit serial number).

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Moderator note: Removed copyrighted text form PC World. See the link above for the actual text.

Last edited by Craig Seeman; May 28th, 2006 at 07:05 PM.
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Old May 28th, 2006, 12:41 PM   #36
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Thanks, Craig. I'll follow those two leads.
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Old June 7th, 2006, 09:27 AM   #37
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The FX1 firewire output setup can be a little confusing, with both HDV and downconverted SD output options. My guess is that you've got some setting somewhere screwed up and your FX-1 is fine. Really make sure it is messed up before you spend any cash fixing it.
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Old June 7th, 2006, 10:47 PM   #38
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laurence,
The firewire plug (and probably the pcp) was fried...useless...not functioning. I tried everything. I't on its' way back from Sony's rip off warranty center, and I shoul have it tommorrow. let's hope it works, since it cost me $611 to fix...
Thanks anyways,
Bruce S. Yarock
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Old June 8th, 2006, 12:02 AM   #39
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Bruce,

I hope it works out for you man and if it is a firewire problem, then maybe a fuse just needs to be replaced.

But you know what, how do you know the guy you bought it from Ebay didn't fry the firewire and in return tried to sell it online for that very reason. And because your honest about it you would rather fix it right. I had a very dodgy guy trying to sell me his PSX on ebay, he had mod-chipped it but then fried the circuits.

I would get the shi#ts at the dealer for selling you a defective product and not Sony.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 11:17 AM   #40
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It may be helpful to realise how manufacturers set up their distribution bases for some of you guys to understand why local offices refuse to maintain equipment that has not been sold direct or through their official dealer channel.

Firstly, all regional offices are set up to fulfil local requirements. They employ engineers (support and demonstration), sales staff, marketers and administrators dependent on the business that is generated in that district.

Each office is a cost-centre (business) in its own right. They have individual sales targets, which they have to meet to pay their support, sales, administration, rent, light and heat costs etc. Each centre has to purchase equipment and usually pay import duty, local tax and shipping from HQ (some are even charged for marketing collateral) at a rate of between 22% and 75% discount, this percentage varies quite substantially between hardware and software. Some offer less, some more but they are extremes.

Regional offices which run a dealer network pass on a somewhat smaller discount to resellers, retaining the margin to pay towards there own running costs. Of course some manufacturers choose distributors to run dealer networks in areas that have a smaller customer base, though these are run on similar lines.

The crux is that no regional cost-centre wants to handle (and pay for) the support of a product that has not profited it with a sale. Grey imports hurt local offices as they undermine their income and therefore their ability to exist and grow. HQ will not pay for support without full warranty documentation as it doesn’t want to be seen as encouraging grey imports and upset the regions.

You may not like it, but at least knowing it gives you the choice.

Now, not all companies work in exactly the same way of course, but I have yet to come across any major manufactering business that varies from the above very much. And all companies have different work ethics and attitudes towards customer service. Just thinking of two major companies that we deal with on a day to day basis. One is great to deal with: friendly, open, fun. Dealing with the other is similar to chewing glass. Both these attitudes are institutionally top-down as the founders had very different attitudes towards business. Neither will support grey imports for free.

What is disasterous, in my opinion, is mechanised support. Human beings please (at least you just might come across an individual who is willing to be more helpful).

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Old June 8th, 2006, 11:21 AM   #41
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Bruce, we understand how frustrating this is for you but I've had to edit this thread. The seller's nationality has nothing to do with your warranty issue. Let's try to stay on-topic.
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Old June 9th, 2006, 10:31 AM   #42
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I'd like to offer my personal experience...

I bought my FX1 off the grey market... (At the time I didnt know it was.)

I too was frustrated to learn that I had no Australian Warranty as the camera was obviously from China. (It had both Chinese and English manuals.)

After a long talk with a friend who works in Canon, I quickly understood that if you want a camera fixed in YOUR country, you pay for the camera in that country.

Globalisation makes this idea mute... because the market barriers are torn down. But currently it will be a VERY long time until that happens. Until then, economics will play out the way it does.

Immagine, you sell food all over the world. You have 2 dealers in germany. But someone (unknown) from Germany buys some food from China to sell in Germany... Then someone gets food poisoning. Its not the 2 dealers' fault THEY have to deal with that problem SOMEONE else brought into the country.

Thats why grey dealers offer thier own warranties (often shipping them back to the original country) because it was a "deffective Chinese food item."

I guess we have to live with our mistakes.

Its not so much "I hate sony." Its more like, I hate the system that allows people to work the system. ALWAYS buy from local reputable merchants. Online is always a bad idea.
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Old June 9th, 2006, 11:34 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Pepingco
I'd like to offer my personal experience...

I bought my FX1 off the grey market... (At the time I didnt know it was.)

I too was frustrated to learn that I had no Australian Warranty as the camera was obviously from China. (It had both Chinese and English manuals.)

After a long talk with a friend who works in Canon, I quickly understood that if you want a camera fixed in YOUR country, you pay for the camera in that country.

Globalisation makes this idea mute... because the market barriers are torn down. But currently it will be a VERY long time until that happens. Until then, economics will play out the way it does.

Immagine, you sell food all over the world. You have 2 dealers in germany. But someone (unknown) from Germany buys some food from China to sell in Germany... Then someone gets food poisoning. Its not the 2 dealers' fault THEY have to deal with that problem SOMEONE else brought into the country.

Thats why grey dealers offer thier own warranties (often shipping them back to the original country) because it was a "deffective Chinese food item."

I guess we have to live with our mistakes.

Its not so much "I hate sony." Its more like, I hate the system that allows people to work the system. ALWAYS buy from local reputable merchants. Online is always a bad idea.
The philosophic problem I have with that and Denise's points is that regardless of which division we are talking about, in the end it's all owned by the same company. The profits from all the divisions and regional sub-companies ultimately go into the same bank account in the end and the expenses all come out of the same bucket. So my argument still holds - brand X is brand X and none of the organizational structures should make any difference.
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