Ebay opinions? reliable?

Will Fastie · March 13th, 2003, 04:50 PM

Mark:

You are absolutely right. I am the responsible party for the transactions into which I enter. I never doubt it and I am appropriately cautious. This is not to say I haven't been stiffed before; everybody has to learn something the hard way.

While you are right about eBay being a virtual flea market, there is one major difference that makes me think the analogy isn't apt. At a flea market or yard sale, the entire exchange happens instantly and I walk away with the goods. My caution in those direct, personal settings is merely to be sure the thing I'm buying will have value. The degree of trust is pretty low -- the seller trusts me to hand over the cash and I trust the seller to hand over the goods. Not a big deal.

On eBay, it's a one-way trust situation. Nobody delivers the goods until they have proof that they have the cash. I have to trust the seller; the seller doesn't have to trust me. If the seller is bogus, it can be hard to run him or her to ground.

So I do know the rules of engagement (I'm still working on them with my wife, though). eBay's responsibility is in setting the rules, and those rules give an edge to a fraudulent seller.

I think the vast majority of transactions on eBay go smoothly. When they don't, I think eBay should be more helpful in resolving the matter. If I can't know the actual identity of the seller, then it would be reassuring to know that eBay does and that it will not tolerate fraudulent behavior. Charles Wyndham's disaster (referenced above) is telling. He's doing all the work trying to find this guy. eBay/PayPal agreed the deal was bad and managed to recover $0.89 out of $2700, then said that was all it could do.

As for feedback, the situation was reversed. The seller had the higher number and I was sitting at 9. I really didn't want to be in the position of getting dinged so soon out of the starting gate. Gutless might be a little strong, though.

Mark Austin · March 13th, 2003, 05:04 PM

Posting an eBay auction item on the DV Info classifieds is not permitted. There are many views on the subject, and many threads on the topic if you do a search for them.

Bottom line is that the classified advertising section here is intended as an alternative to eBay.

Please read: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&threadid=5772 it details DVI's policy on eBay postings. It was put in place by Chris Hurd (the all powerfull! :-) and aggreed upon by the general population of the forum moderators. It's for the greater good of DVI, and I support it. I will stand behind my statements on eBay though, it's not bad, only has bad users.

Mark Austin · March 13th, 2003, 05:22 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Will Fastie : Mark:

As for feedback, the situation was reversed. The seller had the higher number and I was sitting at 9. I really didn't want to be in the position of getting dinged so soon out of the starting gate. Gutless might be a little strong, though. -->>>

You are indeed correct! I'm a little bit (more than less) of a tool sometimes! I apologize to you for my strong words, I did not mean to single anyone out, least of all a great member of DVI!

My point was that a strong on-line community requires a strong constitution, and sometimes it doesn't look like it's a good idea to make waves. But the strength of a community relies on strong members. Even here on DVI sometimes we (I) make a stand and get shot down, but to quote Niche, "That which does not kill us only makes us stronger". That's why online communities like DVI are so great. They're moderated and supported by people who are passionate about them.

Sorry for my overzelous statement in the previous post, please accept my sincerest apology.

Mark

Will Fastie · March 13th, 2003, 05:45 PM

Mark:

Well, don't go overboard. I do have a strong constitution and I didn't take any offense. But thank you.

DVI is the most well-behaved forum I've run into since the days of the great Compuserve forums. It's one of the reasons I like it so much.

With the feedback thing, the question was who stood to lose the most. After due consideration, I decided I would look worse for my effort and not do much damage to compensate. It's not like I didn't get the goods. It was a deliberate and thoughtful decision, even if it does look like I wimped out.

Mark Austin · March 13th, 2003, 05:56 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Will Fastie : I think eBay should be more helpful in resolving the matter. If I can't know the actual identity of the seller, then it would be reassuring to know that eBay does and that it will not tolerate fraudulent behavior. --->>>

I'm all for that! I go to live auctions a fair amount here in Texas, and if you don't have a valid drivers license, you can't play, I aggree it should be the same on eBay. If you are a deadbeat and don't have a permanent address, ss#, drivers license, then eBay should deny you the privilege of dealing. Then if you do screw up they should be first in line at the DA's office with all of your identification information.

At least you got your stuff finally Will. More than some folks can say. I guess the big difference here is that we're not for profit, so the goobers don't have a need to mess things up here. I hope that someday the general population of users on eBay can be as well behaved as DVI.

Mark

Marc Betz · March 15th, 2003, 07:49 AM

Be aware of COD as well. I had a guy sell me Avid Xpress DV outside of Ebay. I believe he was sincere and an honest guy but the UPS guy said I couldn't open the package until after I paid the COD. I bailed because the name required on the postal money order did not match the guy I had been talking to. It was supposedly the shipping companys name but the check name didn't match the check. It was probably legit.

I was not aware of the fact that you had to pay before UPS would allow you to inspect the contents. The UPS guy said if it was a couple of bricks, he couldn't give me the check back either.

Just an FYI

Dylan Couper · March 16th, 2003, 03:26 AM

That's good to know, Marc. But can't you pay a COD charge by credit card? So it you get scammed you will still have fraud protection?

Marc Betz · March 16th, 2003, 07:24 AM

Gee, I don't know. This might be a little tough for the UPS guys to deal with but maybe they can. Again, my guy wanted a USPS money order which also would have given me some leverage with Postal Fraud investigators. I think the guy was legit because we were also working on license transfers and such, but I also found out that the upgrade path I was seeking through Avid only covered the Wintel version not the Mac/windows that you get when purchasing new so I called off the sale when the check fiasco took place.

Anyway, food for thought and something to take into consideration when buying from private seller on the internet.

Mark Austin · March 16th, 2003, 12:16 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : But can't you pay a COD charge by credit card? So it you get scammed you will still have fraud protection? -->>>

UPS & FedEx don't take credit cards for COD, the drivers don't have that ability, and I don't think they will do it even at a customer counter, check or money order only.

The reason FedEx doesn't do it is because the funds are made out to the seller and FedEx just sends them the check. Therefore it's not possible to pay the seller directly by credit card through them.

It's up to the shipper to ask for certified funds or not; If certified funds are required the shipping agent (UPS / FedEx) is not supposed to leave the package, without a bank check or postal MO.

If shipper doesn't require certified funds then a personal check should be fine. If you get a brick you can cancel the check before it's cashed.

March 13th, 2003, 05:04 PM	#17
Mark Austin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 188	Board Policy... Posting an eBay auction item on the DV Info classifieds is not permitted. There are many views on the subject, and many threads on the topic if you do a search for them. Bottom line is that the classified advertising section here is intended as an alternative to eBay. Please read: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&threadid=5772 it details DVI's policy on eBay postings. It was put in place by Chris Hurd (the all powerfull! :-) and aggreed upon by the general population of the forum moderators. It's for the greater good of DVI, and I support it. I will stand behind my statements on eBay though, it's not bad, only has bad users. __________________ I'm humbled by the greatness that surrounds me.

March 13th, 2003, 05:22 PM	#18
Mark Austin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 188	<<<-- Originally posted by Will Fastie : Mark: As for feedback, the situation was reversed. The seller had the higher number and I was sitting at 9. I really didn't want to be in the position of getting dinged so soon out of the starting gate. Gutless might be a little strong, though. -->>> You are indeed correct! I'm a little bit (more than less) of a tool sometimes! I apologize to you for my strong words, I did not mean to single anyone out, least of all a great member of DVI! My point was that a strong on-line community requires a strong constitution, and sometimes it doesn't look like it's a good idea to make waves. But the strength of a community relies on strong members. Even here on DVI sometimes we (I) make a stand and get shot down, but to quote Niche, "That which does not kill us only makes us stronger". That's why online communities like DVI are so great. They're moderated and supported by people who are passionate about them. Sorry for my overzelous statement in the previous post, please accept my sincerest apology. Mark __________________ I'm humbled by the greatness that surrounds me.

March 13th, 2003, 05:56 PM	#20
Mark Austin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 188	<<<-- Originally posted by Will Fastie : I think eBay should be more helpful in resolving the matter. If I can't know the actual identity of the seller, then it would be reassuring to know that eBay does and that it will not tolerate fraudulent behavior. --->>> I'm all for that! I go to live auctions a fair amount here in Texas, and if you don't have a valid drivers license, you can't play, I aggree it should be the same on eBay. If you are a deadbeat and don't have a permanent address, ss#, drivers license, then eBay should deny you the privilege of dealing. Then if you do screw up they should be first in line at the DA's office with all of your identification information. At least you got your stuff finally Will. More than some folks can say. I guess the big difference here is that we're not for profit, so the goobers don't have a need to mess things up here. I hope that someday the general population of users on eBay can be as well behaved as DVI. Mark __________________ I'm humbled by the greatness that surrounds me.

March 15th, 2003, 07:49 AM	#21
Marc Betz Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NH Posts: 95	Cod Be aware of COD as well. I had a guy sell me Avid Xpress DV outside of Ebay. I believe he was sincere and an honest guy but the UPS guy said I couldn't open the package until after I paid the COD. I bailed because the name required on the postal money order did not match the guy I had been talking to. It was supposedly the shipping companys name but the check name didn't match the check. It was probably legit. I was not aware of the fact that you had to pay before UPS would allow you to inspect the contents. The UPS guy said if it was a couple of bricks, he couldn't give me the check back either. Just an FYI __________________ Marc Betz

March 16th, 2003, 03:26 AM	#22
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	That's good to know, Marc. But can't you pay a COD charge by credit card? So it you get scammed you will still have fraud protection? __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

March 13th, 2003, 04:50 PM	#16
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	Mark: You are absolutely right. I am the responsible party for the transactions into which I enter. I never doubt it and I am appropriately cautious. This is not to say I haven't been stiffed before; everybody has to learn something the hard way. While you are right about eBay being a virtual flea market, there is one major difference that makes me think the analogy isn't apt. At a flea market or yard sale, the entire exchange happens instantly and I walk away with the goods. My caution in those direct, personal settings is merely to be sure the thing I'm buying will have value. The degree of trust is pretty low -- the seller trusts me to hand over the cash and I trust the seller to hand over the goods. Not a big deal. On eBay, it's a one-way trust situation. Nobody delivers the goods until they have proof that they have the cash. I have to trust the seller; the seller doesn't have to trust me. If the seller is bogus, it can be hard to run him or her to ground. So I do know the rules of engagement (I'm still working on them with my wife, though). eBay's responsibility is in setting the rules, and those rules give an edge to a fraudulent seller. I think the vast majority of transactions on eBay go smoothly. When they don't, I think eBay should be more helpful in resolving the matter. If I can't know the actual identity of the seller, then it would be reassuring to know that eBay does and that it will not tolerate fraudulent behavior. Charles Wyndham's disaster (referenced above) is telling. He's doing all the work trying to find this guy. eBay/PayPal agreed the deal was bad and managed to recover $0.89 out of $2700, then said that was all it could do. As for feedback, the situation was reversed. The seller had the higher number and I was sitting at 9. I really didn't want to be in the position of getting dinged so soon out of the starting gate. Gutless might be a little strong, though.

March 13th, 2003, 05:45 PM	#19
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	Mark: Well, don't go overboard. I do have a strong constitution and I didn't take any offense. But thank you. DVI is the most well-behaved forum I've run into since the days of the great Compuserve forums. It's one of the reasons I like it so much. With the feedback thing, the question was who stood to lose the most. After due consideration, I decided I would look worse for my effort and not do much damage to compensate. It's not like I didn't get the goods. It was a deliberate and thoughtful decision, even if it does look like I wimped out.

March 16th, 2003, 07:24 AM	#23
Marc Betz Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NH Posts: 95	Credit card Gee, I don't know. This might be a little tough for the UPS guys to deal with but maybe they can. Again, my guy wanted a USPS money order which also would have given me some leverage with Postal Fraud investigators. I think the guy was legit because we were also working on license transfers and such, but I also found out that the upgrade path I was seeking through Avid only covered the Wintel version not the Mac/windows that you get when purchasing new so I called off the sale when the check fiasco took place. Anyway, food for thought and something to take into consideration when buying from private seller on the internet. __________________ Marc Betz

March 16th, 2003, 12:16 PM	#24
Mark Austin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 188	COD <<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : But can't you pay a COD charge by credit card? So it you get scammed you will still have fraud protection? -->>> UPS & FedEx don't take credit cards for COD, the drivers don't have that ability, and I don't think they will do it even at a customer counter, check or money order only. The reason FedEx doesn't do it is because the funds are made out to the seller and FedEx just sends them the check. Therefore it's not possible to pay the seller directly by credit card through them. It's up to the shipper to ask for certified funds or not; If certified funds are required the shipping agent (UPS / FedEx) is not supposed to leave the package, without a bank check or postal MO. If shipper doesn't require certified funds then a personal check should be fine. If you get a brick you can cancel the check before it's cashed. __________________ I'm humbled by the greatness that surrounds me.