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Taking Care of Business
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Old May 5th, 2003, 06:04 PM   #16
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There wasn't really anyway to handle anything any better, though. After Jacob took the broom and waved it in the window, it was downhill from there.

(the video will be online soon)
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Old May 5th, 2003, 06:15 PM   #17
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Alex, you kind of got away lucky. ALthough you probably didn't violate any copyright laws, it is private property so they can make whatever rules they want. If after the initial approach by whoever it was, you had acted like an adult, you would have left unharrassed. Instead you and your homies acted like a couple of disrespectful immature 14 year olds, which is to be expected because, hey, you are 14.

We all did stupid stuff as kids. You just don't realize what an a-hole you've been until a decade or two later.
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Old May 6th, 2003, 01:05 AM   #18
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I'd be setting a bad example for the Wranglers if I said that that footage was endlessly entertaining. So I won't say that. And I'd be giving you the wrong ideas about your conduct--online and in the real world--if I said that your insolence borders on the heroic. So I won't say that either.

But the bit about the copyright should have been challenged. I don't know whether that security officer had right to deprive you of your property (your camcorder tape)--but it's a question that should be answered, and once you know the answer, stick to your convictions.

And I wonder if I'd be offering bad advice if I said: Never point the camera away from the action. Show faces. Show hands covering the lens and swatting the camera away. If you're going to get yourself into the thick of trouble, don't be shy about it.
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Old May 6th, 2003, 01:42 AM   #19
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As far as the video it reminded me of my grandpa forgetting to turn the camera off when he was walking.
For what you guys did was just stupid. But dont worry we all do stupid things.
As for the dumb security guards. no way did you break a copyright other than that song you used, unless you made that song. Second for the management not to be there is just a joke. To instill fear, is to get you to comply and then they have you. He just didn't care what you said. ID for 14 year It wouldn't even matter if they called the cops. Nothing would of happened anyways.
I remember when I was 14 my friends and I set off firecrackers inbetween some concrete walls for a stairway. Once we got done setting them off we didnt get any farther than half a block before the cops where there. two of them. I guess it sounded to much like a Oh btw I have a butane lighter. They took that and destroyed the fireworks...Poor illegal fireworks:( Stupid was I.

If you did goto management you could request information about filming on property. If your filming something for private use on public property it is ok but the second you are thinking of using it for profit or just to show to the public you need a permit.

Next time think of a story or better yet just rent Mallrats. LOL.

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Old May 6th, 2003, 05:10 AM   #20
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Hahah classic, i should be above this type of humour, but damn it makes me laugh. Too bad you ain't here in oz Alex, i actually know the owner of the biggest Mall in my city, you could walk around all day with a camera and nobody would say a word.

I have a similar story, well actually we were much more naughty than you, but i don't have it on tape.

Heres one just for you. We had a scene set for a movie and the time had crept up on us and we didn't have time nor money for permits, so we thought 6am would be a good time to shoot in the busiest and also most dangerous part of our city.

Now the problem with these scene is that we had 2 actors in exact replicas of police uniforms, a current model car that is indentical to what cops use with a police strobe on the top, and a criminal type character with a briefcase full of plastic bags of white powder.

Ohh did i mention everyone actually had *real* guns on them, that were simply welded in the actual barrels so they could never work again.

we had NO permits for ANY of this.

Last but not least we were blocking traffic, and well the 2 actors were acting like cops, not part of the script, and waving cars past around 200 meters ahead of us (the crew) preping the equipment. Well cops come and start chatting to them, and we think we are screwed, but when we get there they are chatting about how they are new to the force and thats why they hadn't met before HAH! Then the cops go away, and we start filming, and somebody see's the guy running with a briefcase and guns coming out and so on, and musn't have seen us, because they called the police and around 8 cop cars showed up in full gear with shotguns out!!!!!!

Lets just say we narrowly avoided going to jail, we all got a fine but got off anything further due to being dumb uni students. So we were all $500 poorer, but got the scene done!!


Ps. it would have been cheaper to get permits.
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Old May 6th, 2003, 01:39 PM   #21
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If you're interested in DV filmmaking I might refer you to Canton-area filmmaker and entrepreneur Chad Kapper, who runs StoneKap Productions. Chad has directed a few features and has been a panelist and workshop instructor at the Midwest Independent Filmmakers Conference. He's always looking for people to help out on shoots or intern for his production company doing editing and CG work.

You can even find a lengthy interview with Chad on

If interested, introduce yourself. Just send him an e-mail.

I wouldn't mention the mall incident, though.
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Old May 6th, 2003, 01:41 PM   #22
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Here in the SF Bay area they arrested some dude that had a camera in his shoes that was peeping out of a hole on top of the shoe which he was using to peep up women's skirts and stuff, he got slapped very well by five-0 and did some time for it. But I think this is something quite different.

When I was younger we tried to take an 8mm to "Wet Seal", that's where all the foine women were getting their clothes, not to be a peeping tom, but just to capture them as they are, that quickly got us evicted from the store, but they never kicked us out of the mall.

Only time I got thorwn out of the mall was in Concord, back when Concord, CA was like "Mississippi in the 60's" when a few of my African-American, Mexican-American, etc. friends were going to buy some shoes, and mall security escorted our every step all the way out the door, and told us "don't come back," as we exited with our purchases. Mind you we did nothing to incite the attention, an African-American officer told us, "Hey, remember this is Concord."
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Old May 6th, 2003, 04:12 PM   #23
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Alex, you should read this post:

He suggests some good, constructive advice.
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Old May 6th, 2003, 11:12 PM   #24
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Alex, I've had a few very similar encounters at my local mall that I think may help to answer your question:

When I was 15, my now long-term, then new creative partner and I went to the mall with a camera to do a segment for our school's TV/Video program called "People of Sarasota." It was essentially the Tom Green Show 5 years before we'd ever heard of Tom Green. We had a novelty lollipop with a read cricket inside and we went around trying to get random people to eat it (we succeeded!). Eventually, the security guards came and, without even letting us offer to cease and desist, escorted us from the mall, citing their "No Solicitation" policy. This seemed flawed to us, as we weren't trying to get people to buy anything, but we were apparently soliciting their participation in our video on private property. The next week, we went to the other mall in town, immediatly sought out a security guard, told him we were doing this video for school and asked if it was all right. Yup. He even gave us a little interview and let us tape him as he banned a couple of skater kids (whom we also interviewed). The Moral: Ask.

Then, when I was 21 or 22, opening night of "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back" we dressed up as Jay and Bob, got our trusty HandiCam (a week before we got our XL1) and went to the mall. We taped all kinds of stuff; High School kids getting our autographs, the security guards telling us we couldn't tape in the mall, us pretending to turn off the camera, the security guards telling us that if we didn't stop this time, we'd be escorted out, us telling them we were working for the theater, them telling us we needed to stay by the theater, and finally....The Mosh Pit. We had a boombox with a lot of Songs from the other Jay and Bob films and we were loud and gathered a crowd and when we started playing music and dancing around, several people joined in, security chased us, caught us and banned us for a year, citing...get this..."Inciting a Riot." But then, out intention was to get kicked out of the mall, just as we had gotten kicked out of a Quick Stop earlier in the evening. It was a publicity stunt. So, uh....take the lesson from the first story, not the second one.


P.S. If you'd like to see a couple pictures of us as Jay N' Bob, I can post some -- we look pretty good
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Old May 11th, 2003, 09:21 AM   #25
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Alex to quote a great TV actor who is in a bit of a mess himself, "don't do the crime if you can't do the time"
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Old May 14th, 2003, 03:02 PM   #26
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<<<-- Originally posted by Shawn McBee :
P.S. If you'd like to see a couple pictures of us as Jay N' Bob, I can post some -- we look pretty good -->>>

Post 'em bro. Funny story!
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Old May 16th, 2003, 11:38 AM   #27
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When you look into getting a permit or permission in a mall find out who owns it. Screw the management.

Ed DeBartolo in Ohio owns about 40% of the malls in the country.

Ed Jr. would probably be the guy to talk to.

I flew Ed's jet for a few weeks as a stand in for a vacationing copilot.

Sometimes the owners will cooperate. When I do a few shots around the area I go to the county supervisor first. Then I take his recommendation to the court house to get a permit.

If I want something I start a the top or as near as possible. Same goes for shooting in school districts, apartment complexes, etc. Send a letter to the owner.

I will I cold have shoot you guys getting into trouble.

Maybe we should do a re-make of your growing up day!!
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Old May 16th, 2003, 11:59 AM   #28
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I agree with Bob that starting at the top when asking permission is often a good strategy. I do not necessarily agree with starting with the ownership. In fact, it would be a waste of time. Most shopping malls today are owned as part of real estate investment trust organizations, of which the Simon Property Group and Taubman are the two kingpins. (The DeBartolo Property Group does own a few malls but their holdings are miniscule.) These organizations are not concerned with the malls' day-to-day operations and would quickly defer such an inquiry to the management company that they've hired to manage the mall in question. So, starting with the mall's management company would be the best strategy. Certainly not the mall's security guards.
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Old May 16th, 2003, 12:15 PM   #29
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Mel Simon


I worked for Mel Simon in Indianapolis also.

Intersting person.

In some cases the top is not best. First, malls are always owned by strange people. Mel and Ed are a little strange.

In any situation, be it malls or downtown court yards, know who owns the place and know that persons secretary.

The secretary runs the business, so to speak.

When I attempt to get in touch with the owners are the secretary I know their names.

If I call for the owner of a apartment complex I make two calls. The first is to find out the secretaries names and the next to "sweet talk" her. I start with "Hey this Bob Deming, what's Karla doing? I need to talk to her for a min."

Or I worm my way in somehow. Approach is the who key to getting what ya want.

Bob Deming
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Old May 16th, 2003, 06:31 PM   #30
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I don't know the whole relationship but DPG owns a substantial part of Simon Property Group.
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