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Taking Care of Business
The pen and paper aspects of DV -- put it in writing!


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Old May 23rd, 2003, 01:50 PM   #31
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LOL-LOL-L0L and my attorney is also LOL

Typical attorney type response.

All attorneys lie. Their purposed is to get around the law.

Next time you are in the SW, like Tucson we can discuss this in front of a real patent attorney at the University of Arizona. He has worked with NASA, IBM, Revlon, HP, "me" and a total of about 50 "F500' companies.

I got my trademark on my own. It was simple. I did all the work, took the paperwork into John's office and he said looks great! I asked him for input and he changed one paragraph after reviewing my work.

If I would have had him do all the work and play the attorney games he said it would have cost $5,000.00. It cost me about $1,400.00 and that included giving him $300 to review the paperwork.

A state TM does mean something in Arizona when you first begin the process. But of course it doesn't stop there.

And you will probably tell us all that we need an attorney for a "copywrite". That would be BS.

It doesn't matter who signs the damn papers. Is the attorney going to take full responsibility? NO! Will the attorney charge you for additional time if he screwed up, YES!

With access to the US CODE on the internet and every other code it is not necessary to use an attorney until you need one.

The extreme problem with the general public is that most are stupid. They prove it every day.

They watch attorney ads on TV and the believe them.

They get into a car accident and they call an attorney before they anything else.

I retired at 44 (10yrs ago (without family finacial support) because I could slice attorneys very thin. There are a few here in Tucson that will walk out of court if they see me sitting with my attorneys and my accountant.

Seems like they just don't like to deal with the Deming and Kidwell Families.

I know someone in Deming New Mexico that loves to give attorneys speeding tickets and if he doesn't like them he puts them in jail for a few hours.

LOL
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Old May 23rd, 2003, 02:12 PM   #32
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Quote:
Typical attorney type response.
Typical uninformed layperson response.
Quote:
All attorneys lie. Their purposed is to get around the law.
No, Bob, all attorneys don't lie. Most attorneys take their ethical obligations very seriously. And their purpose is not "to get around the law." We are all bound to follow it.
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Next time you are in the SW, like Tucson we can discuss this in front of a real patent attorney at the University of Arizona. He has worked with NASA, IBM, Revlon, HP, "me" and a total of about 50 "F500' companies.
I'm a "real" attorney, Bob, and I've represented Fortune 500 companies as well. I don't, for one minute, believe that he told you anything like this. If he did, he is, to put it charitably, an idiot and an embarrassment to the profession. However, as I said, I don't, for one moment, believe he ever told you anything like this.
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I got my trademark on my own. It was simple. I did all the work, took the paperwork into John's office and he said looks great! I asked him for input and he changed one paragraph after reviewing my work.
You need to read much more carefully. I've already said, several times, that anyone can get their own trademark registrationwithout an attorney's assistance. The issue isn't getting the registration, but evaluating the mark and making a determination as to whether it's protectable, strong, infringing, etc.
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A state TM does mean something in Arizona when you first begin the process.
A state trademark doesn't mean anything, because the only rights it grants are coextensive with those available for unregistered common law marks. See 15 U.S.C. 1125(a). I've litigated this SPECIFIC issue a number of times, including to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals.
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And you will probably tell us all that we need an attorney for a "copywrite". That would be BS.
The term is "copyright," and, no, anyone can easily (and cheapily) register their own copyright.
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It doesn't matter who signs the damn papers. Is the attorney going to take full responsibility? NO! Will the attorney charge you for additional time if he screwed up, YES!
More "nonsense" (again, using the term euphemistically). First, attorneys are absolutely liable for their negligence, which is why all of us carry malpractice insurance. Second, a non-infringement opinion from an attorney, even if ultimately wrong, is prima facie evidence of an infringement being _unintentional_.
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With access to the US CODE on the internet and every other code it is not necessary to use a damn attorney until you need one.
I will not discuss my politics, nor anyone else's, in this forum -- it is singularly inappropriate to do so. I will only say that your assumptions are consistent, which is to say, always wrong. As for your statement about "access to the US CODE on the internet and every other code," you could not be more wrong. As I've already explained to you, law in the US is based on precedent, a principle called stare decisis. Even assuming you could understand the code sections, which are not written in plain English, but in terms of art that have very specific legal meaning, you would not have either the access or ability to construe prior decisional law.
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The extreme problem with the general public is that most are stupid. They prove it every day.
I will resist temptation, and not point out the obvious.
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They watch attorney ads on TV and the believe them.
The only lawyers who advertise on television are personal injury and family law lawyers. They have as much in common with intellectual property lawyers and business litigation lawyers as . . . well . . . you.
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Old May 23rd, 2003, 02:16 PM   #33
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If I would have had him do all the work and play the attorney games he said it would have cost $5,000.00. It cost me about $1,400.00 and that included giving him $300 to review the paperwork.
No one charges this kind of money for a trademark registration. Even at my old firm, which was a "big firm practice" top-dollar-charged place, a straight-forward registration, i.e. no office actions, no oppositions, cost about $1200, which included the T&T search.

Looks like you've been hanging around with the wrong attorneys.
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Old May 23rd, 2003, 03:47 PM   #34
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As a bystander, to-date, to this thread I think that Paul has been extremely patient and generous in responding to many remarks made in this thread. In so doing, he's provided us with a veritable NOLO Press reference on this subject!

My experiences with attorneys in my former corporate life coincide with Paul's remarks. Contrary to what the news and entertainment media have fed to us over the years, I've never worked with an attorney who didn't take pride in his/her diligence and ability to foresee hazards. That's their job, and it can be an extremely difficult one. Every attorney with which I've worked (private as well as my corporate counsel) has practiced their profession with the same craftsmanship and precision as any engineer. And that's the role that they play; they engineer formal relationships between parties and between individuals and the general social fabric.

Categorical remarks such as "all attorneys lie" are unjustified and demean the speaker, not the target, of such remarks. Words like "always" and "never" are far too powerful for thoughtful people to use indiscriminately.

Regardless of what prejudices you may harbor in your heart, Paul does not deserve to be indicted by association. He has given us a tremendous amount of professional guidance and reference since joining DVInfo and we're lucky to have him with us.
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Old May 23rd, 2003, 03:55 PM   #35
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Ken, HERE HERE!!

and Paul, thanks for all the info you provide.

All of us would probably get along better if we individually evaluated the info provided on this board an came to our own conclusions without condemming the messenger.

Bob, sorry to hear you have had so many legal difficulties. Hope the rest of us or more fortunate.
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Old May 23rd, 2003, 04:52 PM   #36
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Well said again Paul.

I think it is interesting that Bob doesn't think he needs an attorney untill ABSOLUTELY necessary... and then at the last possible moment.

There are plenty of people who share this philosophy towards mechanics as well as doctors.

They tend to have difficult and short lives.

Regards

Richard
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Old May 23rd, 2003, 05:02 PM   #37
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WOW what a hornets nest!!!

Hey Folks...man I'm almost sorry for bringing this up except that the info here is OUTSTANDING! One suggestion...for those who are being nice ..."thank you" for setting a good example. For others ...here is something to think about ...the folks contributing to this website stand to gain nothing. They are generous with info and kind in response. When making comments PLEASE consider not only WHAT you say but HOW you say it. I understand in some ways why some folks have a harsh view of attorneys and believe me I have a looonnggggg story (too long for here) that I could relate on getting TOTALLY screwed by an attorney and the court system of Texas not once but TWICE!
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Old May 23rd, 2003, 05:05 PM   #38
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continued.....

Here's the deal...we are so blessed to live in a country that has the freedom to choose...in so many ways. You can CHOOSE not to use an atty. but you can also choose to "CYA" by hiring one and it's (usually) money well spent. Like many folks my initial reaction to the word attorney is still "AAAAHHHH" but because of the good one here it's changing. Hence...the nicer we are to each other the sooner momentum will begin to change. Again this comes from someone who was royally shafted by an atty in Texas. Yet the real estate atty I met here was AWESOME. Bottom line...you make your decisions and your decisions make you. Research, research, research. It's the 'only way to fly' and that's exactly what I'm doing before going through with the USPTO registration. So far so good and all thanks to this discussion!
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Old May 24th, 2003, 01:08 AM   #39
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Hey Roze!

Have not heard from you for a bit. Looking forward to the final name.

E-mail me.

- AR
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Old May 24th, 2003, 01:58 PM   #40
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Hi Aaron!

Would you please email me at: fatcatmedia@yahoo.com I'm SOOOOO sorry I've slipped up a bit. Craziness around here. Look forward to emailing.
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Old September 10th, 2003, 02:26 AM   #41
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UPDATE: Great news!

Hey Aaron... I have not forgotten about you. It has been an incredibly busy summer. Had surgery, got the biz up and running, started a doc, working at Habitat... so much to do, so little time it seems! Thank goodness days aren't 40 hours. 24 is enough. Neeeeeed sleeeeeep :-)

About FAT CAT MEDIA... we are OFFICIAL! As of August 21, 2003 Fat Cat Media is now incorporated!!! We ARE going to register the tradename/mark or I believe more accurately the service mark. But I'm glad we waited on the national registration. I've searched "uspto.gov" regularly and have found nothing that directly conflicts with FCM. There are lots of companies with the name "Fat Cat" but not "Media" included, not with "inc." included and not with our specific logo.

Now that we are an "inc." I have added that bit of info to the logo art. Our patent attorney friend is reviewing my app. to "uspto" for free (Thanks Ryan!) and it will go out soooooon. The statewide registration was fine for us while everything else was coming together. Now we can go for national registration fully set-up and the nat'l registration will trumph the state registration. Important because we are adding the "inc".

It worked out very well and THANK YOU to all who helped with our process. Please visit the site as there are new entries under the "Completed Projects" and "Current Projects" links. Also we have FOUND our trailer for "Myrtles' Garden" which is currently being set up as an official 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. The Lord is good! I cannot thank everyone enough for the awesome advice and spirited discussion. More to follow! :)
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