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Taking Care of Business
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Old August 22nd, 2005, 10:27 PM   #106
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Emre. This is my view but I'm sure most others will agree. There's nothing wrong with anyone asking for production work for lower than normal, low, deferred or even no pay. I think we have all done it at least once for projects we believed in depending on the content and/or the producer/crew or just for the practical experience. Just be up front with all of the specifics and don't be so demanding if you can't offer compensation. That's what makes these job posts so ridiculous and sometimes comical, their demading nature for such little or no guaranteed return. If you don't have a budget, then you can't be so particular about crew or gear and if anyone gets mad about that then they need to find another career. Ithink the biggest insult is when someone tries to justify no pay by offering all of these sidelines like a copy and food. Hell, that's something you ought to do anyway! I think I will send my cell provider a copy of my last project as payment for my cell service, ha ha ha ha ha!

Dylan. Your right! I agree that she actually thinks that because there's alot of people that are willing to do it that it's the norm. She's just really naive and will eventually learn before she goes broke, hopefully.
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Old August 22nd, 2005, 10:39 PM   #107
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I don't know what it is...maybe its because I love shooting...but I never understand why these people make all these rediculous demands, and all this top notch equipment from people with like 3 years experience...and don't have the money to pay...yet it never occurs to them to just shoot it themselves. It seems to me if I'm a person, even with no skill in shooting...and I have absolutely no money to pay, I would do it myself.

I mean you don't go to a carpenter and say, I need some cabinets, they have to be real wood, preferably treated, with an ornate design...you must have 3 years experience...I can't pay you...but you can take pictures and use it as examples of your work for future clients.

And that makes me realize yet another thing....someone who has that much experience probably has all they need for a reel anyway....and if they need something else...like a particular camera move or something...they would just set it up and do it themselves.
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Old August 22nd, 2005, 10:50 PM   #108
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James, Matt, both really well put as well.
Here is how to get me to work for free. Send an e-mail that says:

Hi
I've got a shoot coming up, and I don't have a DP/videographer/photographer yet. It's a non paying gig, but I could really use your help. I know you don't care about credit or your reel, which is all I have to offer, I just really need it as a favour. I promise I won't waste your time on it. If you can make it, cool, if not, I understand.

Thanks

PS, Was it Glenmorangie or Lagavulin that you drink?
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Old August 22nd, 2005, 10:52 PM   #109
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Yep. That's all it takes.

Some people may not really be knuckleheads and actually not realize how ridiculous their post sounds when they first write it but it can easily be interpreted that way. We all want an A list crew on our project but reality governs that probability.
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Old August 22nd, 2005, 10:55 PM   #110
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I should change that ad...
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Old August 22nd, 2005, 10:56 PM   #111
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haha very true.


but obviously he at least knew you enough to know the proper non-monetary compensation lol...which is one way alot of people will give out free help. In my example...sure you could get a carpenter for free...but he's probably your friend or your brother...not something you post on the internet.

Another good way to get people to work for free is to have an applicable skill that you can offer them in the future. Like if maybe you don't know an F-stop from a stop sign...but your a great animator, sound guy, or something...and you'd say "I'll animate you a production logo for free, and do your opening title sequence on your next flick, if you can come DP my short". In fact, I have a music video shoot coming up, that the director suggested that I'd be compensated for...but I'm considering significanly lowering my fee, or even doing it for free if he would agree to do a storyboard for me (something he's very good at...and I can't draw a stick figure).
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Old August 22nd, 2005, 11:15 PM   #112
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Matt, that's a good point. What makes it even more ridiculous is that these people demand so much from strangers. You can get more bees with honey than with vinegar, ha ha ha ha.

Yep, I'll do trade outs but only if it's associated within the industry and if it's really beneficial to my needs. I love the ones who want to give you something that you could never use. What we do does not appeal to the masses so unrelated tradeouts don't help us.
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Old August 23rd, 2005, 11:04 AM   #113
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I hope their not saying their from LA to be impressive. It's better than nothing but a bit much to want a shooter to be a field producer, provide a light kit and sound for that rate. Then, to top it off, parking and travel come out of the $250.00.

"We are a Los Angeles based production company seeking a camera operator with own DVX 100A camera, lavaliere microphone system and lights for a short off camera interview in Columbus, GA. We will provide you with a location to go to, and a set of questions to ask off camera. Please email your equipment list, relevant credit list and a digital reel.

The rate will be $250 which will include your parking and travel costs."
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Old August 24th, 2005, 08:30 PM   #114
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Maybe I'm wrong but this seems...

Maybe I'm wrong but this one seems pushy and lowball for someone with Avid and broadcast editing experience....(I haven't cut anything off the beginning, this is how the post started...)


<<If you don't know what Avid is, please do not reply.
If you don't have any experience editing on Avid, please do not reply.
If you cannot work during daytime hours do not reply.
If you have experience on avid, experience with broadcast television, experience with documentary film making and a kick ass reel PLEASE REPLY.

Avid Express Pro experience a plus.
Photoshop experience a plus.
Documentary, Reality TV editing a plus.

We are currently editing a TV Show pilot, and may already have the show sold. if you can get in now, we will take you with us as the show continues.
Job location is LAS VEGAS
Compensation: $15 HR | TAX FREE
This is a part-time job.>>
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Old August 24th, 2005, 10:45 PM   #115
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wow...I never thought this day would come...but I got one...and also I want to emphasis that this guy has been spamming forums like crazy with this one (and also I should mention that the mispelling of 'pilot' is present in every single spam, including ones days after his initial post and also long after people responded criticising his mispelling):

"Hey...a friend of mine and I have a deal with a tv station that is in the LA area that is soon to go nationwide and we are looking for 2 more people who can run camera but you need to have a digital 3ccc (3 chip) camera. The show will be nationwide and we first need to do the piolet and the show is a extreme sports show that focus's on BMX, Skateboarding and Motocross and in the summer it will be on Surfing and in the winter we will do snowboarding instead of motocross. We need 2 camera people, a lights person and a sound person, if you are interested please send me a messege and if available along with a resume asap. You will not be paid for the piolot but when the first weekly episode air's then we can talk money eventually!"

I should also note that later someone asked him what is the station and the call letters to which he responded:

"Im not going to say for certain reasons"

LOL...I tried my hardest to be angry...but that is just downright silly.

Matt
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Old August 25th, 2005, 12:52 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Champagne
I should also note that later someone asked him what is the station and the call letters to which he responded:

"Im not going to say for certain reasons"
He isn't going to say cause there isn't one. :)
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Old August 25th, 2005, 03:36 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Chaszeyka
<<We are currently editing a TV Show pilot, and may already have the show sold. if you can get in now, we will take you with us as the show continues.
Job location is LAS VEGAS
Compensation: $15 HR | TAX FREE >>
... and no way in heck will they give you a contract guaranteeing they'll take you with them as the show continues. And I smell double trouble because they're in Las Vegas. Up-and-up deals in L.V. are fine. Shady deals in LV are extra shady! B)

At least they didn't

A) misspell 'pilot'
B) misspell it two *different* ways, LOL
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Old August 25th, 2005, 09:42 AM   #118
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Another thing about the BMX one...is the sheer lack of sense of the logistics of what he is asking for. You think...sure you probably need two shooters to do BMX, motocross, and snowboarders...that's pretty reasonable. But exactly what is your lighting guy and sound guy going do to? Is he going to snowboard behind him with an HMI glued to his snowboard?

Conversely, if instead he's talking about doing the studio portion...such as a host and interviews with pro extreme sports people....why does he need two cameras? I asked him this, and he explained that he is doing it a "different" way by using several cameras for different angles...to which I responded there is absolutely nothing different about that...that's how TV shows shoot real programs...but they spend money to do it...but you can shoot a pilot of interviews and in studio hosting with a single camera.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 02:52 AM   #119
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I had a lovely one the other day. I applied for a job offering 350 (I guess $500) per finished DVD, for editing an instructional series to be distributed nationally. There would be 4 DVD's in all, so total pay I worked out to be 1400.

Although not the greatest pay for this sort of work, I figured what the hey, why not? Might be fun. Beside it'd certainly pay the bills for a couple of months.

I emailed, with a link to my showreel, and got a reply a day later, saying that I was in the final selection of editors for the job, and that now they wanted some honesty from me, asking me exactly what I could and couldn't do, in terms of editing, music, design, dvd menus etc.

As I read on, I realise that stuffed in near the bottom of the email, lost in the ether of "copy of dvd, credit on box, great for showreel" stuff was "Pay: 40 per DVD, 200 for all 4."

I mean that is just slave labour... especially considering what they wanted done, including everything from editing to design of the dvd cover, replication, menu design, musical scoring etc etc.

Personally, if the advert was worded nicely, with some enthusiastic rumblings about it's potential (or something) then I would have considered doing it for cost. But to drop the pay so significantly, whilst demanding honesty from me, well that just set the alarm bells ringing!
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Old September 2nd, 2005, 08:45 PM   #120
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This was the original post

"We are shooting some projects this weekend. Let me know if you want to take part. Send me your resume. You must have access to a professional camera (and bring it to the set), and must get back to me ASAP. I will select crew and give credentials later this afternnon. You will be shooting bigtime celebrities and storm victims. Times are: Sat 6p, Sun 6p, and Monday morning...with a brief crew meeting either sat morning or right before Sat evening shoot. Let me know which days you are available or select all days. I'll get back to you Friday evening with further details.

Must be very professional. Should be a lot of fun, great opportunities to network and enjoy the event after shoot.



Job location is Xxxxxxx

Compensation: varies"

This was the direct response to the post

The part I like the most is the rate and then the fact that you only get that if it airs

Then to top it off, she will get there after she comes from her paying job at Turner Sports


"Hey guys,

1. the event at hand is the Xxxxxxx Xxxxxxxx (Xxxxx Xxxx) Charity weekend.
(Technically it started yesturday) but I had other shoots to take care of. We will shoot at the fun...adult activities. Sat is poker night with a red carpet. Sunday is on a boat at Lake Xxxxxx. They both start at 6p...until we got all of our shots...then you can put your equipment up and enjoy the evening, smooze a bit with the stars and make connections for your next big break in this crazy industry we work in. Or...you could go home. If you've been to these events before...you'll know its a perk filled night. With that said...

2. We are doing this for Current TV, a new news network catered to 18-34 year olds. You will be paid only...$50...if this piece airs. (We most likely will air, because my work usually does.) But, up front these are the stipulations.

3. Now, with that...we won't work you too hard 'cause we'll have a shot list.
If you still want to be apart of this great opportunity, please reply back.

I'll need you Sat, Sun @5:30p; the crew is 2 cameras, director, host, stylist.

Also reply soon, so I can add your name to the all access credentials. Also we need to have a crew meeting in the early afternoon 1p sharp. We'll meet and you'll get your details. I have to work at Turner Sports for a while...I don't know when I'll get off. But, you'll be cleared to shoot before I arrive.

--
Thanks so much!"
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