Preferred Workflows?? at DVinfo.net

Chris Leong · September 15th, 2007, 10:34 PM

Hi All

Just started working on a friend's show -- it's already cut and locked (shot SD on a PD150), QT output in AIC to me as a picture master, and I'm in the process of film looking it.

Here's what I think:

a) MPEG Streamclip the show to something that's p24 (i.e. deinterlace it). It's an SD show but it was anamorphic so maybe upres to 720p24 for fun?

b) Load into FCP and color correct

c) Output to AIC

d) reimport and then Film Gamma/grain/treat the entire clip (MB Editor's)

e) export again to AIC

f) Out to DV from that new AIC master (actually, just give back the AIC to the producer so he can marry with final audio before he finals on DVD - compressor).

So the questions are -

1)
what frame blender do I use to avoid the stuttering action when going to 24p? I did a short test and so far 720p30 looks the best, but of course I want to end up in 724.

2)
any suggested treatment for the jaggies? Have lots of houses with white roofs and slanted angles...

3)
film look then color correct?
Or
color correct first, then film look?

Thanks!
Cheers
Chris

Daniel Ross · September 16th, 2007, 05:19 AM

"upres for fun" seems like a bad idea.
If you just change the size for no reason, you'll end up with generation loss when it calculates the new size, then again when it downsizes.

Do the 24p first, since that will actually change your frames, if interpolated correctly. THEN edit, and do everything else. The actual timing within each frame will change, so your edit will need to match this.
No reason to color correct first. Easier to do that after.

For deinterlacing, Magic Bullet, which you seem to have, is a very good option. However, if you have a shot with a lot of organic textures in it, like trees or ground, with camera movement, then it can start giving very strange warping effects. Turning down the detail pattern to 1 will help, but it can still look off.
There are a number of other plugins then, and you should play with what you have available.
The default in your editor/fx app might help, too.
I'd use MB for each shot that allows it, and find another solution (that will lose some detail) for the other shots. Or, for consistency, just use the second option. I'd choose per sequence.

Chris Leong · September 16th, 2007, 06:12 AM

Daniel
Thanks - copy that. Will try it your way and if I have the time , run a short comparison.
Cheers
Chris

Robert Ducon · September 20th, 2007, 12:02 PM

Traditional HDV Workflow:

a) shoot 60i HDV
b) import HDV
c) edit HDV
d) export using compressor to various formats (deinterlace before export to SD resolutions)

24P HDV Workflow:

a) shoot 24P HDV
b) import HDV as 60i
c) apply chroma sharpening filters
d) export using compressor while deinterlacing to ProRes 422 codec
e) edit
f) add special effects and titling in after effects
g) send to 'Color', for color grading
h) export mulitple copies for various sources using compressor

24P HD-SDI 4:2:2 Advanced Workflow:

a) capture live footage from camera at full raster 4:2:2 HD 1080 60i (23.976 footage) as ProRess 422 HQ
b) import into AE and reverse telecine AND add/do special FX
c) export to ProRes 422
d) edit
e) export certain clips and complete special FX, compositing, and titling
f) send to 'Color', for color grading
g) export mulitple copies for various sources using compressor

Both have their reasons for being used. ProRes is useful for what I am doing on a current project, as it's 24P and was shot with a 35mm adapter. The reason I use AE for step (b) in the third workflow is because Compressor can't deal with ProRes HQ and reverse telecine of the high end footage.. fails. AE is slow, but does the job well.

Daniel Ross · September 20th, 2007, 12:18 PM

If you're doing any FX, you should absolutely deinterlace first. Or you'll run into a ton of problems.

Robert Ducon · September 20th, 2007, 11:41 PM

Reverse telecine gives me true progressive, non-interlaced frames. AE only works on non-interlaced material.. without getting into it deeply.

Daniel Ross · September 21st, 2007, 10:33 AM

I was referring to the first method posted.

September 15th, 2007, 10:34 PM	#1
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Preferred Workflows?? Hi All Just started working on a friend's show -- it's already cut and locked (shot SD on a PD150), QT output in AIC to me as a picture master, and I'm in the process of film looking it. Here's what I think: a) MPEG Streamclip the show to something that's p24 (i.e. deinterlace it). It's an SD show but it was anamorphic so maybe upres to 720p24 for fun? b) Load into FCP and color correct c) Output to AIC d) reimport and then Film Gamma/grain/treat the entire clip (MB Editor's) e) export again to AIC f) Out to DV from that new AIC master (actually, just give back the AIC to the producer so he can marry with final audio before he finals on DVD - compressor). So the questions are - 1) what frame blender do I use to avoid the stuttering action when going to 24p? I did a short test and so far 720p30 looks the best, but of course I want to end up in 724. 2) any suggested treatment for the jaggies? Have lots of houses with white roofs and slanted angles... 3) film look then color correct? Or color correct first, then film look? Thanks! Cheers Chris

September 20th, 2007, 12:02 PM	#4
Robert Ducon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 400	Traditional HDV Workflow: a) shoot 60i HDV b) import HDV c) edit HDV d) export using compressor to various formats (deinterlace before export to SD resolutions) 24P HDV Workflow: a) shoot 24P HDV b) import HDV as 60i c) apply chroma sharpening filters d) export using compressor while deinterlacing to ProRes 422 codec e) edit f) add special effects and titling in after effects g) send to 'Color', for color grading h) export mulitple copies for various sources using compressor 24P HD-SDI 4:2:2 Advanced Workflow: a) capture live footage from camera at full raster 4:2:2 HD 1080 60i (23.976 footage) as ProRess 422 HQ b) import into AE and reverse telecine AND add/do special FX c) export to ProRes 422 d) edit e) export certain clips and complete special FX, compositing, and titling f) send to 'Color', for color grading g) export mulitple copies for various sources using compressor Both have their reasons for being used. ProRes is useful for what I am doing on a current project, as it's 24P and was shot with a 35mm adapter. The reason I use AE for step (b) in the third workflow is because Compressor can't deal with ProRes HQ and reverse telecine of the high end footage.. fails. AE is slow, but does the job well. __________________ Mac + Canon HV20

September 20th, 2007, 11:41 PM	#6
Robert Ducon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 400	Reverse telecine gives me true progressive, non-interlaced frames. AE only works on non-interlaced material.. without getting into it deeply. __________________ Mac + Canon HV20

September 16th, 2007, 05:19 AM	#2
Daniel Ross Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Marin & Davis, CA, USA Posts: 418	"upres for fun" seems like a bad idea. If you just change the size for no reason, you'll end up with generation loss when it calculates the new size, then again when it downsizes. Do the 24p first, since that will actually change your frames, if interpolated correctly. THEN edit, and do everything else. The actual timing within each frame will change, so your edit will need to match this. No reason to color correct first. Easier to do that after. For deinterlacing, Magic Bullet, which you seem to have, is a very good option. However, if you have a shot with a lot of organic textures in it, like trees or ground, with camera movement, then it can start giving very strange warping effects. Turning down the detail pattern to 1 will help, but it can still look off. There are a number of other plugins then, and you should play with what you have available. The default in your editor/fx app might help, too. I'd use MB for each shot that allows it, and find another solution (that will lose some detail) for the other shots. Or, for consistency, just use the second option. I'd choose per sequence.

September 16th, 2007, 06:12 AM	#3
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Daniel Thanks - copy that. Will try it your way and if I have the time , run a short comparison. Cheers Chris

September 20th, 2007, 12:18 PM	#5
Daniel Ross Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Marin & Davis, CA, USA Posts: 418	If you're doing any FX, you should absolutely deinterlace first. Or you'll run into a ton of problems.

September 21st, 2007, 10:33 AM	#7
Daniel Ross Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Marin & Davis, CA, USA Posts: 418	I was referring to the first method posted.