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Old November 22nd, 2003, 12:14 AM   #1
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Projecting 24p

Hello, I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with digitally projecting 480p video in a theater setting. I am curious as to what low cost ($3-6K) DVD / projector combinations work to display true 480 progressive. I want as close to the film projection look as possible, with no nasty interlace lines.

I assume to get a 24fps look, a projector needs a refresh setting of 72 or 96Hz - is that correct? (24*3 = 72) (24*4=96).

Robert - AZ
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Old November 22nd, 2003, 04:54 AM   #2
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Most any SVGA projector with an analog YPbPr Component AV input will do the job, provided that you are using a progressive-scan DVD player with YPbPr component outputs.
http://www.canonprojectors.com/lvs2/compare.html

Or you could consider using a YPbPr component-to-VGA convertor with your progressive scan DVD player component outputs if your projector only provides for a VGA multipin RGB computer input.
http://www.audioauthority.com/aaccon.../9a62detc.html

If you want a really sweet image, use an XGA-native projector (or even an SXGA-native projector if you can afford one) and use a Focus Enhancements Center Stage processor to upscale that tiny SD signal to a larger frame size to take advantage of the XGA (or SXGA) resolution advantage.
http://www.focusinfo.com/products/ce...enterstage.htm

- don
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Old November 22nd, 2003, 09:06 AM   #3
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No experience with 24p, but I just finished a project where we used a Barco SLM-R10 10,000 lumen DLP projector with 1280x1024 resolution to project 40' wide images. We were all very happy with the results. The footage was DV that had be deinterlaced with DVFilmMaker as 30p. It had a pretty "filmic" look to my eyes.

Now on a much smaller scale, I'm now working with similarly processed footage at home which I send via firewire to a Sony DVD recorder. When I view this on a 16:9 LCD monitor as 480p (DVD recorder set for progressive mode outputting component video to the monitor) it really looks terrific. This pretty much matches what Don suggests. My experience with the large projector was that the image on the big screen was pretty similar to the smaller LCD in its general "feeling".

If you're working in a smaller venue then you might want to check out the Epson projector that was reviewed in the current issue of DV Magazine. They said it's the best video they've seen yet. It cost around $4500 I think, but was pretty modest in terms of brightness, maybe 1500 lumens IIRC.
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Old November 22nd, 2003, 11:31 AM   #4
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Hi Boyd,

That Barco is one sweet projector! I would guess that its price point is in the $15-20K range? Barco is the projector of choice for most of the systems used at MIT, some of them with a throw distance of 70' or more.

Have you any experience yet with using any type of line doubler or upscaler? Think of the CS-1 as a line quadrupler - in that it will ensure that if you are feeding your XGA or SXGA-native display systems a tiny DV signal, the pixels will be as small as possible when displayed on a big screen. You can also think of the CS-1 as a "real-time interlace to progressive-scan convertor" in that it will take any type of video feed and output it progressively, SXGA-style in any frame aspect ratio you may need. It also includes 3:2/2:2 Pulldown detection and correction for best viewing of film-based sources. Another cool feature is that it gives you complete 4-corner geometry control of the video signal for correcting any type of keystoning issue.

It would be cool to meet you at one of the upcoming tradeshows in NYC in the near future. I think the next one will be the NY DV Show in early 2004. If you ever come to the Boston area, let me know, could hook you up with a tour of MIT's AMPS and CAES departments.

Best regards,

- don
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Old November 22nd, 2003, 02:22 PM   #5
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<<<-- Originally posted by Don Berube : I would guess that its price point is in the $15-20K range?

I *wish*! Nope, I think you'll need to add another zero to that price. With the lens, road case, etc. I'd expect it to approach $120,000. Have not priced this exact model, but we did price some similar units a year ago. We rented two projectors (one was a backup) for about 5 weeks for around $50,000, just to give you an idea....

<<<-- Originally posted by Don Berube : Barco is the projector of choice for most of the systems used at MIT, some of them with a throw distance of 70' or more.

The middle of the screen was about 120' from the projection lens in our setup. Am just about to begin early planning of another project to be done in Jan 2005 where I hope to use rear video projection, this time on an even larger surface, around 53' wide.

<<<-- Originally posted by Don Berube : Have you any experience yet with using any type of line doubler or upscaler?

No, I don't have any first hand experience but have read about them. I know scalers are popular with the home theatre enthusiasts as well. We were relying on the projector itself to handle all this, and I was actually very impressed by what I saw. There really were no individual pixels visible. The images were remarkably clean, considering their DV origin.

<<<-- Originally posted by Don Berube : It would be cool to meet you at one of the upcoming tradeshows in NYC

Likewise... that sounds like fun. Will let you know, but they don't let me out too often around here ;-)
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Old November 22nd, 2003, 05:35 PM   #6
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>>>>><<<-- Originally posted by Boyd Ostroff : <<<-- Originally posted by Don Berube : I would guess that its price point is in the $15-20K range?

I *wish*! Nope, I think you'll need to add another zero to that price. With the lens, road case, etc. I'd expect it to approach $120,000. Have not priced this exact model, but we did price some similar units a year ago. We rented two projectors (one was a backup) for about 5 weeks for around $50,000, just to give you an idea....

- Doh! I guess I should have realized that! Isn't it funny how the creme of the crop projectors always seem to cost $120,000?? heh My first experience with professional-scale projection was back in the late 80's with the GE Talaria PJ5055 LightValve projector, which also cost about $120,000 back then. With the GE LightValve projector, the scanning pattern is produced by an electron beam on a thin film of oil. This serves as a light valve through which light from a powerful lamp (via a mirrored surface under the oil) is passed to the screen. Three such valves in one projector, superimposed, are used to produce color pictures. And, it was all 100% totally ANALOG video back then as I am sure you remember. Plus, it had no way near the 10K lumens of the Barco SXGA projector you mentioned above. However, it's near-1000 lumens was somewhat 'lossless', in that you could project that image over almost any distance and recover your light output by twaeking the light valve... I had to be trained by GE in Syracuse to qualify as a certified PJ5050 series tech. What a beast! It was so huge and heavy, it took 4 strong people to move around. It also took a half day to tweak that thing into it's "sweet spot" and still, it always exhibited a somewhat magenta hue... My LightValve 'swan song' was the Democratic Convention way back I think in '89 when we had 6 huge hanging screens at the World Trade Center in Boston with a total of 6 double-stacked lightvalve setups, each with a rear projection throw distance of about 15 feet - luckily we were able to use a wide-angle lens to match the short throw distance. I went for 3 days without sleeping working on that gig. Yikes!

- don
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