help! mid-digital life crisis or towards a DV life using film...

Stephen van Vuuren · December 10th, 2003, 01:26 PM

Helen:

Thanks for the info. I've been reading the pro links. I remember now hearing about this but did not realize the range and quality of Super 8 stock available. I did like working with Super 8 camera, I owned a Chinon until it died.

John Jay · December 10th, 2003, 03:29 PM

SvV

This may sound a bit crazy but here goes

In the eighties Nikon F2? 35mm SLR supported 12 fps via motor drive...

now motor technology has moved on a longa longa way so maybe a Nikon motor drive could be mod'd to run 24fps

now introduce one of those bulk film backs (250ft?) and you would have a 35mm (36x24) movie cam with tons of Nikon lenses to spoil you. (it would look awesome, for sure and you wouldn't need antlers for the steadicam :))

If you process bulk slide E6, then DIY (great fun and you control the look)

after that a 4000 dpi Nikon Coolscan (i think they did a motorised version) for the telecine (HD watch out!)

at ebay prices it all starts to look possible at reasonable cost, but finding someone to mod the motor drive to 24 fps may cost $ - maybe someone on this board has the skill

in practice --- your shoots would be mirror up as soon as you can shout action so you would need a bullet cam for framing with motion camera work

also think of the money saved - no MINI35 required

Helen Bach · December 10th, 2003, 04:32 PM

John, nice idea, but the noise! The lack of registration! The short but exciting life of the shutter. Of course you could stick at 12 fps and double up in post, a bit like the animators do, but the registration might be a problem. I know some NIkons had pin registration, but I'm not sure if they would run at 12 fps.

Well, knocking ideas around...

There are clockwork 35 mm movie cameras about that could be fitted with still camera lens mounts - I saw a Vinten kit with a set of Cooke lenses on sale for GBP 900 a while back - they take 200 ft loads (spools still available, load them yourself).

There is also the venerable Eclair CM-3 - most of these will take Nikon lenses. Noisy, but otherwise fine cameras.

Also, if you don't mind the noise, the good old Bolex 16 mm will produce 'HD quality' images when handled with care.

For cheap. slow transfer to digital video you might consider a rig made from a projector, or better, the pin-registered film transport section from a Jakko (? JK?) printer and a digital still camera.

Best,
Helen

Stephen van Vuuren · December 10th, 2003, 04:59 PM

I just talked to Roger Evans about the Workprinter with digital still cameras and right now no one has solved the logistics. Though he says you can get an used analog 3-chip broadcast head that resolves 800-900 lines and capture SDI to HDCAM codec - that would give you HD rez telecine at home...

However, I'm thinking I will just start with a quality manual SLR kit and go from their. Then add either Super 8 or 16mm to the mix once I get out of short term financial problems.

It seems based on the responses here and from my searches on the net that DV (and even HD) has not salved the thirst for imagery.

With so many (including Agus) building homemade adapters etc and the still thriving home telecine market, seems like an enterprise manufacturing could take advantage of the need.

Maybe low cost HD 24p cams will do it, but I worry they will end up like the JVC - lots of rez, but zero latitude and poor color rendition with artifacts beaucoup.

John Jay · December 10th, 2003, 05:24 PM

Helen

Noise ??? what a beautiful noise!! - one of my favourite sounds :)

I remember my Pentax LX days - that motor drive used to turn heads

<<The short but exciting life of the shutter>> - well if thats not a title for a movie - what is (agree totally but maybe someone can make a fix like an endless loop shutter curtain - a noiseless one at that and pin reg to boot)

anyway I want a MovieCam for xmas - please Santa :)

Seasons Greets

Rob Belics · December 10th, 2003, 06:17 PM

Earlier someone asked where you could buy 35mm motion picture film for still cameras. I've used http://www.rgbcolorlab.com/ before. $8 to get 36 developed with a free return roll. They have most of the 35mm MP films available.

Helen Bach · December 10th, 2003, 11:35 PM

Rob,
I've heard a lot of bad reports about RGB, and when I tried them the film was definitely not current Kodak stock - there were no edge markings and the quality was way below what I get from MP labs. Do they actually supply current film, or do they just list current film on their website? (they have a disclaimer saying that 'all films may not be available') What edge markings have been on the film you got back from them?

It would be good news indeed if they supplied and processed the real thing at such low prices.

Best,
Helen

Rob Belics · December 11th, 2003, 04:33 PM

I'll let you know next week. I'm using them for the first time for some testing.

December 10th, 2003, 01:26 PM	#16
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	Helen: Thanks for the info. I've been reading the pro links. I remember now hearing about this but did not realize the range and quality of Super 8 stock available. I did like working with Super 8 camera, I owned a Chinon until it died. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

December 10th, 2003, 03:29 PM	#17
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	NO GrAIN NO PAIN SvV This may sound a bit crazy but here goes In the eighties Nikon F2? 35mm SLR supported 12 fps via motor drive... now motor technology has moved on a longa longa way so maybe a Nikon motor drive could be mod'd to run 24fps now introduce one of those bulk film backs (250ft?) and you would have a 35mm (36x24) movie cam with tons of Nikon lenses to spoil you. (it would look awesome, for sure and you wouldn't need antlers for the steadicam :)) If you process bulk slide E6, then DIY (great fun and you control the look) after that a 4000 dpi Nikon Coolscan (i think they did a motorised version) for the telecine (HD watch out!) at ebay prices it all starts to look possible at reasonable cost, but finding someone to mod the motor drive to 24 fps may cost $ - maybe someone on this board has the skill in practice --- your shoots would be mirror up as soon as you can shout action so you would need a bullet cam for framing with motion camera work also think of the money saved - no MINI35 required __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

December 10th, 2003, 04:59 PM	#19
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	I just talked to Roger Evans about the Workprinter with digital still cameras and right now no one has solved the logistics. Though he says you can get an used analog 3-chip broadcast head that resolves 800-900 lines and capture SDI to HDCAM codec - that would give you HD rez telecine at home... However, I'm thinking I will just start with a quality manual SLR kit and go from their. Then add either Super 8 or 16mm to the mix once I get out of short term financial problems. It seems based on the responses here and from my searches on the net that DV (and even HD) has not salved the thirst for imagery. With so many (including Agus) building homemade adapters etc and the still thriving home telecine market, seems like an enterprise manufacturing could take advantage of the need. Maybe low cost HD 24p cams will do it, but I worry they will end up like the JVC - lots of rez, but zero latitude and poor color rendition with artifacts beaucoup. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

December 10th, 2003, 05:24 PM	#20
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	Helen Noise ??? what a beautiful noise!! - one of my favourite sounds :) I remember my Pentax LX days - that motor drive used to turn heads <<The short but exciting life of the shutter>> - well if thats not a title for a movie - what is (agree totally but maybe someone can make a fix like an endless loop shutter curtain - a noiseless one at that and pin reg to boot) anyway I want a MovieCam for xmas - please Santa :) Seasons Greets __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

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December 10th, 2003, 04:32 PM	#18
Helen Bach Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 120	John, nice idea, but the noise! The lack of registration! The short but exciting life of the shutter. Of course you could stick at 12 fps and double up in post, a bit like the animators do, but the registration might be a problem. I know some NIkons had pin registration, but I'm not sure if they would run at 12 fps. Well, knocking ideas around... There are clockwork 35 mm movie cameras about that could be fitted with still camera lens mounts - I saw a Vinten kit with a set of Cooke lenses on sale for GBP 900 a while back - they take 200 ft loads (spools still available, load them yourself). There is also the venerable Eclair CM-3 - most of these will take Nikon lenses. Noisy, but otherwise fine cameras. Also, if you don't mind the noise, the good old Bolex 16 mm will produce 'HD quality' images when handled with care. For cheap. slow transfer to digital video you might consider a rig made from a projector, or better, the pin-registered film transport section from a Jakko (? JK?) printer and a digital still camera. Best, Helen

December 10th, 2003, 06:17 PM	#21
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	Earlier someone asked where you could buy 35mm motion picture film for still cameras. I've used http://www.rgbcolorlab.com/ before. $8 to get 36 developed with a free return roll. They have most of the 35mm MP films available.

December 10th, 2003, 11:35 PM	#22
Helen Bach Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 120	Rob, I've heard a lot of bad reports about RGB, and when I tried them the film was definitely not current Kodak stock - there were no edge markings and the quality was way below what I get from MP labs. Do they actually supply current film, or do they just list current film on their website? (they have a disclaimer saying that 'all films may not be available') What edge markings have been on the film you got back from them? It would be good news indeed if they supplied and processed the real thing at such low prices. Best, Helen

December 11th, 2003, 04:33 PM	#23
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	I'll let you know next week. I'm using them for the first time for some testing.