Filming Submarine Kits at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > Techniques for Independent Production

Techniques for Independent Production
The challenges of creating Digital Cinema and other narrative forms.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 23rd, 2009, 06:29 PM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 68
Filming Submarine Kits

For one of my next projects I really want to make use of 1/72 or 1/144 scale models of submarines as opposed to doing the CGI ones. I did some screen tests of a CGI a couple years ago when I was writing the script originally, but it didn't turn out as good as I had hoped. So looking around on Amazon/eBay I found a number of large models, but I was wondering if anyone else had tried that path before? I used to have the mentality of doing everything in After Effects/3ds max, but recently I've changed my mentality to doing things live. Thanks in advance!
__________________
Motion Blur Studios - Canon XL H1, XL2, nanoFlash, 2xFS-4 HDs, Custom 9TB RAID 10 Array HPT RocketRaid 4320, GeForce GTX 480, Adobe CS5 Production Suite
Jarred Capellman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2009, 09:10 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: chicago
Posts: 434
Underwater, you're going to have to absolutely blast your miniatures with light to get close to the correct f-stop (which will be whatever your lens can go to -- f/22 or f/32). If at all possible, overcrank so you can slow the footage down a little, for example filming at 60p and playing back at 24p. That won't help the light situation, so you'll probably wind up with a high ISO/gain, but don't sweat it too much. Most importantly, use a tripod underwater. If the camera is moving around, it will be a dead giveaway. Swaying the camera side to side by even 1 inch at 1/144 is like swaying it 12 feet at full scale.
Ben Syverson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2009, 02:43 PM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Woodinville, WA USA
Posts: 3,464
Boy, I must have completely misunderstood the question as I wouldn't even consider actually shooting underwater in a tank. I'd do what the Hollywood guys do these days -- use the models in a properly lit warehouse or stage with a motion-control rig on the cam and add the water effects later in post.
Adam Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2009, 03:29 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: chicago
Posts: 434
That's called "dry for wet." It will definitely help with the lighting and camera support, but it has its own challenges. You'll have to completely saturate the room with stage smoke to get the right look, and play around with lighting until you have something plausible.
Ben Syverson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2009, 04:51 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: LOWESTOFT - UK
Posts: 2,121
Do the Gerry Anderson thing. Get some sheets of glass, separated by just a few inches of water and put some small fish in, then put the model behind, and then another twin panel with really small fish in and there you go - Stingray and Thunderbirds. And you can get plenty of light onto the model to get decent depth of field - and nothing gets wet!
Paul R Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2009, 11:06 AM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Woodinville, WA USA
Posts: 3,464
I know absolutely nothing about this, but I wouldn't think you'd need real smoke at all. I would bet anything all this can be done digitally and tweaked indefinitely until you're happy.
Adam Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2009, 10:48 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: chicago
Posts: 434
You can't add digital smoke/haze to a model plate... You'd need a 3D model of the miniature, at which point, you might as well just do it CG instead of shooting a miniature at all...
Ben Syverson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2009, 11:14 PM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Woodinville, WA USA
Posts: 3,464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Syverson View Post
You can't add digital smoke/haze to a model ...
Again, I know nothing about this specifically and you obviously know a lot more than I do, but you can add digital smoke/haze/diffusion to anything...

I believe "Hunt for Red October" did exactly that for the "exterior" sub shots... models plus digital underwater effects.
Adam Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2009, 12:34 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: chicago
Posts: 434
Right, but the models were filmed with practical haze... I don't have that Cinefex in front of me, but it was probably dry-for-wet with lots of smoke. In 1990 I doubt they would have done any sub effects with CG.

The reason you can't add haze to a model later is that if the sub is coming towards the camera, the front of the sub gets less haze than the rear. To simulate that, you'd have to make a 3D model of the sub and motion track it to the model, and then render just the haze. It's much easier to just shoot the model with smoke.
Ben Syverson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2009, 05:56 AM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 68
Thanks guys! I hadn't subscribed to this thread so I didn't know I got responses! :( These ideas definitely open up some ideas, I don't plan on filming this movie until next year as I have 2 films right now to finish before December's Film Festival entry deadline.
__________________
Motion Blur Studios - Canon XL H1, XL2, nanoFlash, 2xFS-4 HDs, Custom 9TB RAID 10 Array HPT RocketRaid 4320, GeForce GTX 480, Adobe CS5 Production Suite
Jarred Capellman is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > Techniques for Independent Production

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:30 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network