Magic Bullet, what do you think so far? at DVinfo.net

Glenn Gipson · April 29th, 2004, 07:39 AM

I just wanted to get an up to date consensus from Magic Bullet users on what they think of it? All opinions appreciated, thanks!

John Chia · April 29th, 2004, 02:16 PM

it could be a lot faster ( rendering )

Glenn Gipson · April 29th, 2004, 02:49 PM

John, do you have the latest version, and what are you running it on? Finally, what type of rendering times are you actually getting? Thanks.

Will Robertson · April 29th, 2004, 09:12 PM

I am also experiencing really slow rendering times. It renders like 1 minute of video in 1 hour-- it sucks so much. I have AE 5.5 running on a AMD Athlon 2500+ with 512 MB of ram.

Rich Lee · April 30th, 2004, 02:16 AM

I dont care for the "magic bullet" portion of the software...i much prefer shooting in frame mode and do! I do like the transistions that it has, although the render times are insane. The looks suite is really nice but when u dig into it and see what its doing, its nothing really that u cant get by using a bunch of other filters that come standard in AE. It has a nice collecting of presets that u can mess with, but once u figure out how it works, its nothing u cant replicate with out it.

I think the rendering in 1.5 is MUCH faster then 1.0.

Glenn Gipson · April 30th, 2004, 06:32 AM

Yeah, I heared the rendering on 1.5 is suppose to be over 3x faster, but only on P4 and G5 systems.

Kevin Burnfield · May 4th, 2004, 09:08 AM

Well, I had the opportunity to run some footage through MB a little while ago and liked somethings, didn't like others.

I've got a XL1S and when I shoot for film look I shoot at 1/30 in Frame mode and have been extremely happy with filmic quality of the footage. After running minor filters over it in Final Cut Pro I'm even more so.

MB recommends you shoot in 'Normal' mode at 1/60. This is the mode that makes it look more like video then any other but it gets the extra information and all that.

I shot some footage of just an outside scene (unfortunately I didn't have the chance to set up a well lit set or use any actors) and shot it in both my usual 1/30 frame and then in 1/60 Normal.

Running it through MB with the basic pre-set settings I liked some things about it but honestly I thought the Frame Mode stuff looked more filmic.

NOW, when I used the more elaborate settings like the Bleaching ones I was MUCH more impressed with the final look.

The render times were unpleasant but if the results were AMAZING I wouldn't have minded--

Having said all that--- I did use a pre-set that was installed with MB, I didn't play around with any of the settings and no one of expertise with the program was around to guide me. But I can't see how much difference that would have made since it's a preset from the makers.

Josh Brusin · May 4th, 2004, 10:17 AM

so you know Magic Bullet for Editors has been released www.redgiantsoftware.com and it's compatible with FCP... $299. looks like it is primarilly a film color correction template based thing. No 24p deinterlace/deartifacting.
Anyone use it yet?

Kevin Burnfield · May 4th, 2004, 07:12 PM

Huh... that's interesting. I might download the demo and give it a try.

Personally, I am always happier being able to keep the footage in one program versus porting it out to AE and then back again.

Thanks for letting us know about that, Josh!

Dave Largent · May 5th, 2004, 02:59 AM

MB for Editors is coming for Vegas in June.

Alain Aguilar · May 15th, 2004, 10:53 AM

My 12 minute short would take anywhere from 6 to 22 hours (letterbox), depending on the look suit. P4, 500 MB

Bram Corstjens · May 27th, 2004, 06:46 AM

The de-interlacing procedure of MB itself isn't that slow, it's the 'detail pattern size' option that makes things go slow.

What it does is that this option 'melts' diagonal pixels together to reduce the stairstepping visible on diagonal lines. This indeed does reduce those stairsteps on certain parts of the video, but the major drawback is that is has to process every pixel to evaluate if it's part of a diagonal line or pattern.

A size of 4 makes magic bullet look for the next 4 neighbour pixels of a pixel. A size of 1 looks for just the first neighbour and is thus a little faster. Whatever setting is used, it's still a painfully slow process.

But that's not the issue in my opinion. This 'feature' of magic bullet seems to 'choke' on sharp details. It incorrectly melts pixels together that shouldn't be.

See more at: http://home.planet.nl/~snuve011/bram/de-interlaced/index.html

John Chia · June 6th, 2004, 03:36 AM

i still dun get. which is the overall best?

Bram Corstjens · June 11th, 2004, 06:54 AM

I would go with Reelsmart Fieldskit:

-It's exactly the same quality as Magic Bullet (when the 'detail pattern size' is not used in MB that is...) I loaded both clips into after effects, each at a separate layer. Added Bagic Bullet to the first and Fieldskit to the second and switched back and forth: No difference visible!

If you add the detail pattern, magic bullet will give you better diagonal lines, but as said it doesn't just 'smooth' those parts and tends to choke on details. Also I noticed some very small horizontal lines appearing on low-detail surfaces.

And last but not least: I'm not exactly sure wheter this 'detail pattern' actually improves image quality.

-It works also with Premiere (and after effects ofcourse)

-It's faster than Magic Bullet

-It's much cheaper

-You can set more manual controls.

Glenn Gipson · June 11th, 2004, 06:57 AM

Bram, how did you like Magic Bullet's Look Suite and deartifacting?

April 29th, 2004, 07:39 AM	#1
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	Magic Bullet, what do you think so far? I just wanted to get an up to date consensus from Magic Bullet users on what they think of it? All opinions appreciated, thanks!

April 30th, 2004, 02:16 AM	#5
Rich Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Los Angeles Ca Posts: 126	I dont care for the "magic bullet" portion of the software...i much prefer shooting in frame mode and do! I do like the transistions that it has, although the render times are insane. The looks suite is really nice but when u dig into it and see what its doing, its nothing really that u cant get by using a bunch of other filters that come standard in AE. It has a nice collecting of presets that u can mess with, but once u figure out how it works, its nothing u cant replicate with out it. I think the rendering in 1.5 is MUCH faster then 1.0. __________________ Rich Lee http://www.rich-lee.com

May 15th, 2004, 10:53 AM	#11
Alain Aguilar Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Bergen Posts: 170	My 12 minute short would take anywhere from 6 to 22 hours (letterbox), depending on the look suit. P4, 500 MB __________________ Alain

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April 29th, 2004, 02:16 PM	#2
John Chia Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 32	it could be a lot faster ( rendering )

April 29th, 2004, 02:49 PM	#3
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	John, do you have the latest version, and what are you running it on? Finally, what type of rendering times are you actually getting? Thanks.

April 29th, 2004, 09:12 PM	#4
Will Robertson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Orem, UT. Posts: 24	I am also experiencing really slow rendering times. It renders like 1 minute of video in 1 hour-- it sucks so much. I have AE 5.5 running on a AMD Athlon 2500+ with 512 MB of ram.

April 30th, 2004, 06:32 AM	#6
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	Yeah, I heared the rendering on 1.5 is suppose to be over 3x faster, but only on P4 and G5 systems.

May 4th, 2004, 09:08 AM	#7
Kevin Burnfield Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 363	Well, I had the opportunity to run some footage through MB a little while ago and liked somethings, didn't like others. I've got a XL1S and when I shoot for film look I shoot at 1/30 in Frame mode and have been extremely happy with filmic quality of the footage. After running minor filters over it in Final Cut Pro I'm even more so. MB recommends you shoot in 'Normal' mode at 1/60. This is the mode that makes it look more like video then any other but it gets the extra information and all that. I shot some footage of just an outside scene (unfortunately I didn't have the chance to set up a well lit set or use any actors) and shot it in both my usual 1/30 frame and then in 1/60 Normal. Running it through MB with the basic pre-set settings I liked some things about it but honestly I thought the Frame Mode stuff looked more filmic. NOW, when I used the more elaborate settings like the Bleaching ones I was MUCH more impressed with the final look. The render times were unpleasant but if the results were AMAZING I wouldn't have minded-- Having said all that--- I did use a pre-set that was installed with MB, I didn't play around with any of the settings and no one of expertise with the program was around to guide me. But I can't see how much difference that would have made since it's a preset from the makers.

May 4th, 2004, 10:17 AM	#8
Josh Brusin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 439	so you know Magic Bullet for Editors has been released www.redgiantsoftware.com and it's compatible with FCP... $299. looks like it is primarilly a film color correction template based thing. No 24p deinterlace/deartifacting. Anyone use it yet?

May 4th, 2004, 07:12 PM	#9
Kevin Burnfield Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 363	Huh... that's interesting. I might download the demo and give it a try. Personally, I am always happier being able to keep the footage in one program versus porting it out to AE and then back again. Thanks for letting us know about that, Josh!

May 5th, 2004, 02:59 AM	#10
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	MB for Editors is coming for Vegas in June.

May 27th, 2004, 06:46 AM	#12
Bram Corstjens Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 126	The de-interlacing procedure of MB itself isn't that slow, it's the 'detail pattern size' option that makes things go slow. What it does is that this option 'melts' diagonal pixels together to reduce the stairstepping visible on diagonal lines. This indeed does reduce those stairsteps on certain parts of the video, but the major drawback is that is has to process every pixel to evaluate if it's part of a diagonal line or pattern. A size of 4 makes magic bullet look for the next 4 neighbour pixels of a pixel. A size of 1 looks for just the first neighbour and is thus a little faster. Whatever setting is used, it's still a painfully slow process. But that's not the issue in my opinion. This 'feature' of magic bullet seems to 'choke' on sharp details. It incorrectly melts pixels together that shouldn't be. See more at: http://home.planet.nl/~snuve011/bram/de-interlaced/index.html

June 6th, 2004, 03:36 AM	#13
John Chia Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 32	i still dun get. which is the overall best?

June 11th, 2004, 06:54 AM	#14
Bram Corstjens Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 126	I would go with Reelsmart Fieldskit: -It's exactly the same quality as Magic Bullet (when the 'detail pattern size' is not used in MB that is...) I loaded both clips into after effects, each at a separate layer. Added Bagic Bullet to the first and Fieldskit to the second and switched back and forth: No difference visible! If you add the detail pattern, magic bullet will give you better diagonal lines, but as said it doesn't just 'smooth' those parts and tends to choke on details. Also I noticed some very small horizontal lines appearing on low-detail surfaces. And last but not least: I'm not exactly sure wheter this 'detail pattern' actually improves image quality. -It works also with Premiere (and after effects ofcourse) -It's faster than Magic Bullet -It's much cheaper -You can set more manual controls.

June 11th, 2004, 06:57 AM	#15
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	Bram, how did you like Magic Bullet's Look Suite and deartifacting?