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Old May 29th, 2005, 07:00 PM   #1
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Looking For Capture Tool Which...

Hello!
Does somebody knows a capture software which has an option to let you set a desirable frame rate, i.e. for example my DVcam is 25fps, but I need to capture it to different number of fps? I posted the thread about WinAvi Video Capture and it is great, except the missed possibility to capture in DV format.
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Old May 29th, 2005, 07:38 PM   #2
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What exactly are you trying to do Plamen?

Do you want to slow down or speed up your video, or have it play the same speed but at a different frame rate?
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Old May 30th, 2005, 07:38 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Ringin
What exactly are you trying to do Plamen?

Do you want to slow down or speed up your video, or have it play the same speed but at a different frame rate?
Yes, I want exactly the same speed, but with different frame rate! WinAvi Video Capture, which I mentioned before, does that perfectly, but it has not support capturing to DV AVI format. That's what I want. So?
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Old May 30th, 2005, 07:44 PM   #4
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If I were doing it, I'd capture to 50i DV, then render to whatever codec and frame rate I wanted from Vegas.
It sounds like you want to do this in one step, which I'm not sure you can do because 'capturing' DV by firewire is generally a simple copying of the digital data, it is not manipulated in any way on capture - not sure though.
If winavi can capture to any codec you have on your system, you could just install a DV codec (I have the Panasonic codec installed so Virtualdub can open and render to DV AVI).
A quick google got this: http://users.tpg.com.au/mtam/install_panvfwdv.htm
can't remember if this is what I'm using, but it should work
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Old June 1st, 2005, 05:41 AM   #5
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Plamen: the DV standard does *NOT* allow for any other framerates then
29.97 or 25 fps. It is just not in the spec.

So you will not find a DV capture tool that can "capture" in any other frame-
rate to a DV file (24p capture doesn't apply since it is really 29.97 fps under
water).
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Old June 1st, 2005, 10:51 AM   #6
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Yes. Remember that even when you are watching a 24p clip (which I think is what you're looking for) on a TV or whatnot, the missing 1-6 frames are being reinserted. So what you want to do is a telecine pulldown thing in Vegas and render to DV-AVI. Which will still be, in your case, 50i, but looking like 25p.

Also, I've read your other thread, and I have to agree with at least one point that's been made. The human eye absolutely cannot discern between 25 frames and 24 frames per. It just isn't possible. Slow it to 96% if you must, but it won't make a difference to the eye.
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Old June 1st, 2005, 06:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Kinney
Yes. Remember that even when you are watching a 24p clip (which I think is what you're looking for) on a TV or whatnot, the missing 1-6 frames are being reinserted. So what you want to do is a telecine pulldown thing in Vegas and render to DV-AVI. Which will still be, in your case, 50i, but looking like 25p.
Would you explain more about "telecine pulldown", please? Also, 50i is mentioned, but how to get it, how to use it?
Please for your explanations, guys!!! Actually, I am a professional musician, not the same about video, but I really wnat to know more.
Thank you in advance!
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Old June 2nd, 2005, 05:29 AM   #8
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You automatically get 50i if your camera records in interlaced (and is PAL).
50i means 50 half frames per second, or 25 full frame per second INTERLACED.

Telecine pulldown is only used in NTSC country to store 24 fps in 30 fps,
they duplicate fields (half frames) through a 3:2, 2:3 or 2:3:3:2 pattern
(depending on the camera/device). Inverse telecine undoes this.

So the original 24 fps stream (for example) is:

frame 1, fields 1 & 2
frame 2, fields 1 & 2
frame 3, fields 1 & 2
frame 4, fields 1 & 2

After 2:3 pulldown it would be:

frame 1, original frame 1 fields 1 & 2
frame 2, original frame 2 fields 1 & 2
frame 3, original frame 2 field 2 (DUPLICATE) & original frame 3 field 1
frame 4, original frame 3 field 2 & original frame 4 field 1
frame 5, original frame 4 field 2 & original frame 4 field 2 (DUPLICATE)

So this turns every 4 frames into 5 frames. (24 / 4) * 5 = 30

This effect is fully reversible. The other two forms are just variations on
the one explained above. 2:3:3:2 is specifically for HDV and editing since
you can drop 1 complete frame to get the original 24 fps motion without
having to split and re-combine anything.
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Old June 2nd, 2005, 08:53 AM   #9
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Rob,thank you very much for the info!!! SO,my miniDVcam is 25fps PAL. After capture, I see in the properties of the captured file - FIELD ORDER: LOWER FILED FIRST. But how to let that file become 25p?
Generally, I misunderstand the reason of some Vegas settings at all. How to use the template and its subsettings and the ruler time format, so that to get different results? For example: in the Project Properties if I use a template "PAL DV" and at the same time I set the RULER TIME FORMAT to SMPTE Film Sync [24fps,film], is there any changing of the project? I think:NO! Especially if I render out in PAL SVCD or PAL DVD. So,what is the reason?
What is the reason of "USE CUSTOM TIMECODE" in the video file properties? There is not any difference if I set any of the options there. Also, how to get 24p from 50i in Vegas without quality loss??? If I use the exact settings of Vegas rendering out for PAL 25 /dv avi or dvd/, then the rendered video has the same clear and smooth motion like the raw video form the mini DVcam, i.e. like in real reportages of news channels or in some live and sport shows. But I want to make the motion a vvvvvery little bit "stuttered", so that to be different in comparisson with the raw video. Like the cinema motion... SO?
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Old June 2nd, 2005, 11:13 PM   #10
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I agree with whats been said: you can't tell the different between 25p and 24p. Leave the rulers and timecode at 25 fps PAL - they only change what is displayed on the screen

Try this:
1. open new project, template DV PAL (or DV widescreen PAL if you used anamporphic)
2. Change project field order to progressive/none
3. place video on the timeline
4. Download the smart deinterlace plugin from here: http://mikecrash.wz.cz/
5. apply the filter to the clip or track
6. render out at 25fps

See what that looks like to you.

The only way to get 24p from 25p with no quality loss is to slow it down. Then what are you going to do with it? you won't be able to print to tape on a PAL deck (only NTSC with pulldown). Aim for 25p, then the only loss is when deinterlacing. The link above is for a 'smart' deinterlacer which tries to keep as much resolution as possible.
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Old June 3rd, 2005, 05:10 AM   #11
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Plamen: you cannot do ANY conversion without quality loss. That's just how
the cookie crumbles. You can of course try to minimize this loss (and a lot
of times the loss is not visual in the first generation at least).

Again, I would not convert PAL 25 fps to NTSC 24p. It is lower resolution
(720 x 576 versus 720 x 480) and you cannot see the difference between
24 and 25 fps.

Converting 50i (or 25 fps interlaced) to progressive is done by a process
called de-interlacing. When you start a new project in Vegas just select
25p (PAL) and load your interlaced footage. Vegas will automatically de-
interlace it to progressive footage.

On the new project setting screen there are also options you can choose
on what algorithms it should use to de-interlace your footage. Experiment
with the different settings and see what works best for you.

If you export (render) out to a file make sure the output settings are
progressive and not interlaced!!! (this may require to take a trip to the
advanced settings on the export screen).

The reason you can change the timecode is to facilitate different projects
(other than DV). For example, you may have a 15 fps animation project
that would require a 15 fps timecode timeline. If you select the correct
project on the new project screen Vegas automatically sets the right time-
code timeline for you, so don't worry about that. It's just a visual display,
doesn't change anything to your footage.
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