Ignore my previous thread. I've made the question about DVFilmmaker's 24p easier. at DVinfo.net

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Old November 6th, 2005, 06:50 PM   #1
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Ignore my previous thread. I've made the question about DVFilmmaker's 24p easier.

I'm using a Sony VX series camera (shooting at 60i of course)

There are a few options on DVFilmmaker for 24p conversion. As many of you know (who have it), they are as follows:

(MAIN)
1. Use 24p filmmotion/ w deinterlace.

(24P EDITING OPTIONS: PRE-EDIT)
1. Convert 60i to 24p

2. Convert 3:2 pulldown to 24p

3. Convert 2:3:3:2 pulldown to 24p

EXTRA - Output 23.976 exactly

(24P EDITING OPTIONS: POST-EDIT)
1. Convert 24P/23.976P to NTSC 3:2 Pulldown

2. Convert 24P/23.976P to NTSC 2:3:3:2 Pulldown

Now I find that the basic USE 24P FILM MOTION/w DEINTERLACE looks the best. Is that the one I'm supposed to use if I'm transferring to film though. Or is that just for television use. There is the 60i to 24P in the EDITING OPTIONS. But that one looks choppy. The filmmotion one is the best. The other options are for editing on 24P timelines and such. But I edit my footage 60i and then transfer to 24p. Does it matter? Or do I use the standard filmmotion or the 60i to 24P for transfer to film?
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Old November 7th, 2005, 09:07 AM   #2
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The "Film Motion" option is really a combination of the Pre and Post Edit options. It converts 60i to 24p AND adds 2:3 pulldown to bring it back to 60i. That option is really only for projects that you have already edited and completed in 60i and want to give film motion to, but even in that case, it may be better to use the Pre Edit options.

The best workflow is to just rough edit bad clips out of your source footage, then use the Pre Edit option to convert to 24p. Edit your project in a 24p timeline. Everything you do will be more accurate, because you'll be working with full frames insteads of fields.

After that you should never have to go back to 60i, unless you need to tape out. For DVD's you can encode your 24p file directly, and let your DVD player add the 2:3 pulldown on the fly at playback. Your DVD encode will be better quality at 24p as well.
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Old November 7th, 2005, 10:42 AM   #3
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But it still looks choppy.

I've done that and it looks choppy. I've put the filmmotion AVI on a DVD and it looks great. So for film transfer don't use it?
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Old November 7th, 2005, 01:18 PM   #4
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If Film Motion looks fine to you, and 60i to 24p looks choppy, then there must be some problem in your workflow, because it's the same images in different formats. In fact, the 24p should look better because it's fewer frames and less complexity, so the MPEG-2 encoder can be more efficient.

What are you using to edit the footage? How are you outputting it from your NLE? What are you using to encode to MPEG-2? What settings are you using? What are you using to author your DVD?

Film Motion is acceptable if you are not doing a film out, but you won' t be maximizing the overall quality of your video using that option.
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Old November 7th, 2005, 01:47 PM   #5
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I'm using regular 60i footage. Untampered.

It's just regular 60i using standard Adobe Premiere. I just cut and paste (for testing). No filters, speed adjustment, de-interlacing or anything. Straight from the camera and exported as DV-AVI.

Last edited by James A. Davis; November 7th, 2005 at 04:59 PM.
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Old November 7th, 2005, 07:15 PM   #6
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Thanks Josh.

I did what you posted. I made the footage 24p then turned it into 3:2 Pulldown. Its just like the film motion so thanks. Two questions remaining.

1. Can this 24p/3:2 be used for film out or do i use the 2:3:3:2 pulldown for that.

2. (I know this is off the subject and there are many threads on this topic - but anyways) The jerky SAVING PRIVATE RYAN LOOK. I've done the 1/250 shutter and it comes out cool. Only thing is there is a slight strobing. Any way to get rid of this strobing? 24P only (without pulldown options) maybe? Post process? I'd like your view on how to do this with interlaced footage.
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Old November 8th, 2005, 08:00 AM   #7
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Quote:

'1. Can this 24p/3:2 be used for film out or do i use the 2:3:3:2 pulldown for that.'

You should never use a 2:3 pulldown when sending a NTSC tape for film out, because you wouldn't get the exact original frames from your 24p source. For film out from a NTSC tape you should always use the 2:3:3:2 cadence.
Now, if you're sending a digital file for film out (say, in a removable hard disk) then you don't need to apply any pulldown. Just send the original 24p movie.
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Old November 8th, 2005, 01:29 PM   #8
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James,

You didn't answer all of my questions. You did give me some clues, though.

I gather you are not going out to DVD, you are going back to tape. Is that correct? If so, I think you have it right now. Pre-Edit 60i to 24p. Edit it 24p timeline. Take your final product a second pass through Maker adding 3:2 pulldown so it's back to 60i. Then export to tape.

Note: If you were burning to DVD, you wouldn't need to add the 3:2 pulldown back, the DVD player would handle that.

While it is true, that 2:3:3:2 pulldown is better for film out, it would be even better not to go back to tape, but to send the 24p digital files, so you don't have another round of DV compression by going back to 60i and to tape. Better quality. Or better yet, get in touch with the film out conversion house before shooting your project. They'll have information about camera settings from the very start.

The 1/250 shutter angle will look sharp and stroby. That is the look, video or film. However, it will look very bad put through Maker 60i to 24p. Maker works best with 1/60 shutter. The best you can do is deinterlace in Maker from 60i to 30p, then slow it down to 24p in your NLE. That won't be as stroby, but it will be slightly slow-motion, and you may not want that.

If you really want to do a high-quality 1/250 shutter look and 24p, you actually have to step to a real 24p camera, like the DVX100A or the XL2.

Josh
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Old November 10th, 2005, 09:41 PM   #9
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Straight unadulterated 24p for film out.

Are you saying apply no pulldown at all when sending a DV tape for film out, just send it straight up 24p?
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Old November 10th, 2005, 11:43 PM   #10
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James,

I believe we were both saying no tape at all. If you add pulldown to go back to tape, you're adding a DV compression generation and decreasing the quality. You can deliver your footage directly on a portable hard drive as 24p files, and even use an uncompressed format.

Josh
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