Here is your film look

Marcus Marchesseault · July 2nd, 2006, 07:09 PM

When a clear blue sky with nice striations of clouds blows out into a pure white glob, blown-out highlights are a problem. Sometimes a blown-out sky can be faked as a cloudy sky, but people are accustomed to the sky occaisionally being blue. Couple the blown-out sky with under-exposed shadows and the lack of exposure latitude with video cameras becomes a real problem. That does not come from my posterior orifice. It is a simple fact that the sky has color and detail. Video cameras can rarely expose both the sky and foreground shadow areas simultaneously without losing significant detail that the audience is accustomed to seeing in reality.

Simon Wyndham · July 3rd, 2006, 02:03 AM

There's a solution to that. Don't shoot towards the sun.

Away from the direction of the sun, while you still might blow out the odd cloud, there won't be half as many problems.

The prosumer cameras are gaining better adjustments.
On cameras such as the XL2 adusting the master pedestal and the knee will get you more range. Similarly using black stretch on cameras such as the Z1.

The idea that shooting film will solve these problems is silly. Film DOES have far more latitude in most cases (depending on the stock you use). But even film has its limits.

Most problems can be solved by being more careful with shot setup. Of course documentary is harder though.

Marcus Marchesseault · July 3rd, 2006, 05:10 AM

There are way too many variables to consider when shooting a scene to expect good light conditions will always exist. Some locations only look right for one direction and that direction may be with the camera facing South. For many months, South is going to be towards the sun. Also, for other facings the shot will only work for a short time each day due to morning or evening sun getting in the lens or noontime harshness ruining the look. The sun is not concerned about when time and budget are snapping at your heels and a dozen crew are all arranged for the day. In these situations, Riley's technique could save the day. I know that I am going to try to emulate it as best as possible without using After Effects (can't afford that now).

There is a way for any camera to achieve greater exposure latitude, but until I figure out how to prove it possible and get a patent I can't say anything. Someday, all this may be irrelevant. Until then, I'm going to look into luminance keying for sky replacement. :)

Bennis Hahn · July 3rd, 2006, 08:57 PM

how did you get that dof in the first clip. I love how it gets more blurred as the distance increases. very realistic!

Lorinda Norton · July 3rd, 2006, 10:24 PM

Really nice--especially that first clip, Riley. Makes me wish I knew After Effects.

p.s. to Bennis: I shouldn't be laughing, but that quip in your sig line is pretty funny! :)

Rey Ortega · July 26th, 2006, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riley Harmon

Here is your coveted film look. Mixture of After Effects DOF Simulation, image softening, and my own 24p method. Shot 60i with a Sony VX2000.
:-) Comments and criticisms appreciated.

www.rileyharmon.com/temp/pan61.mov

It may not look exactly like film, but it definitely gives it a better feel than video. Yeah, what is up with the red bars though...

Rey Ortega

Rey Ortega · July 26th, 2006, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riley Harmon

vx2000 www.rileyharmon.com/temp/sky_replacement.mov

Hey Riley, what did you do to match the rest of the scene with the sky? Did you use an overlay?

Rey Ortega

Dave Ferdinand · July 27th, 2006, 06:18 AM

Looks pretty good but nothing we haven't seen before.

A really convincing 'film look' test would be to shoot something using a 16mm camera side-by-side with one of the new HD cameras, or even a SD cam.

Than place the footage here and everyone could judge by themselves...
Whoever is rich enough and can spend the time, please take the first step forward...

Riley Harmon · July 27th, 2006, 10:04 AM

in the spring ill be shooting a lot of stuff on 16mm, i also have access to high end sd cams and possibly hd, ill look into it

Rey Ortega · July 27th, 2006, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Ferdinand

Looks pretty good but nothing we haven't seen before.

A really convincing 'film look' test would be to shoot something using a 16mm camera side-by-side with one of the new HD cameras, or even a SD cam.

Than place the footage here and everyone could judge by themselves...
Whoever is rich enough and can spend the time, please take the first step forward...

I agree, but the trick is to provide the illusion of film using video which ultimately cannot be compared unless, like you said, someone has the time and money to A/B the two.

July 3rd, 2006, 10:24 PM	#20
Lorinda Norton Wrangler Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southwest Idaho, USA Posts: 3,066	Really nice--especially that first clip, Riley. Makes me wish I knew After Effects. p.s. to Bennis: I shouldn't be laughing, but that quip in your sig line is pretty funny! :) __________________ Lorinda

July 27th, 2006, 06:18 AM	#23
Dave Ferdinand Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 359	Looks pretty good but nothing we haven't seen before. A really convincing 'film look' test would be to shoot something using a 16mm camera side-by-side with one of the new HD cameras, or even a SD cam. Than place the footage here and everyone could judge by themselves... Whoever is rich enough and can spend the time, please take the first step forward... __________________ Do or do not, there is no try.

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July 2nd, 2006, 07:09 PM	#16
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	When a clear blue sky with nice striations of clouds blows out into a pure white glob, blown-out highlights are a problem. Sometimes a blown-out sky can be faked as a cloudy sky, but people are accustomed to the sky occaisionally being blue. Couple the blown-out sky with under-exposed shadows and the lack of exposure latitude with video cameras becomes a real problem. That does not come from my posterior orifice. It is a simple fact that the sky has color and detail. Video cameras can rarely expose both the sky and foreground shadow areas simultaneously without losing significant detail that the audience is accustomed to seeing in reality.

July 3rd, 2006, 02:03 AM	#17
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	There's a solution to that. Don't shoot towards the sun. Away from the direction of the sun, while you still might blow out the odd cloud, there won't be half as many problems. The prosumer cameras are gaining better adjustments. On cameras such as the XL2 adusting the master pedestal and the knee will get you more range. Similarly using black stretch on cameras such as the Z1. The idea that shooting film will solve these problems is silly. Film DOES have far more latitude in most cases (depending on the stock you use). But even film has its limits. Most problems can be solved by being more careful with shot setup. Of course documentary is harder though.

July 3rd, 2006, 05:10 AM	#18
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	There are way too many variables to consider when shooting a scene to expect good light conditions will always exist. Some locations only look right for one direction and that direction may be with the camera facing South. For many months, South is going to be towards the sun. Also, for other facings the shot will only work for a short time each day due to morning or evening sun getting in the lens or noontime harshness ruining the look. The sun is not concerned about when time and budget are snapping at your heels and a dozen crew are all arranged for the day. In these situations, Riley's technique could save the day. I know that I am going to try to emulate it as best as possible without using After Effects (can't afford that now). There is a way for any camera to achieve greater exposure latitude, but until I figure out how to prove it possible and get a patent I can't say anything. Someday, all this may be irrelevant. Until then, I'm going to look into luminance keying for sky replacement. :)

July 3rd, 2006, 08:57 PM	#19
Bennis Hahn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 221	how did you get that dof in the first clip. I love how it gets more blurred as the distance increases. very realistic!

July 27th, 2006, 10:04 AM	#24
Riley Harmon Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 424	in the spring ill be shooting a lot of stuff on 16mm, i also have access to high end sd cams and possibly hd, ill look into it