What's wrong? I'll tell you what's wrong! at DVinfo.net

Frank Granovski · October 21st, 2003, 10:01 PM

What's wrong? I'll tell you what's wrong! All those soft cam bags don't have enough padding. Even worse, they're not water proof. Good tripods are expensive. Good filters are impossible to get in those small thread sizes. Oh, and good filters are expensive too. MiniDV tapes are not created equally, and you can't mix the damn things unless you want screwed-up heads.

WHAT?? You already know all this and you want me to get to the beef? Okay, you asked for it. :)

Cams. Yes, what all miniDV dreams (and nightmares) are about. The cam: the mighty tool which brings us fame as film makers, recognition, cheeks, and much much more, like something to bitch about. Some folk need a cam for shooting fine deep shadows and dork blacks, other folk need a cam for shooting sneaky stuff like spying on people (while little ol' me just need a cam to catch someone at their worst, or best). It's just too bad, I think, that I hate most of the new cams and I already have cheeks. Furthermore, I don't give a damn about recognition and I don't have dreams. Well, maybe that's not quite right. I do have one or two each night---I dream about cheeks; I dream about falling off a cliff; I dream about dead people that I used to know when they were not dead. (Brains.... More brains---kinda like watching the same scary re-runs every day on my 20 inch 4:3 Emerson color TV with the built-in VCR which I got for free when I bought the new furniture about 7 months ago at a real good deal. :):):)

Why do I hate new cams? Okay, I'll tell you. Cams can't do a number of things, and I want them to do these things before I can get to like them. Here's my beef list:

I want cams to shoot in low light, very low light
I want the manual controls and auto too
I want better audio, a lot better
Side loaders, please
More zoom, please
Silent running cams, and no zoom noise
I want atomic batteries good for at least 69 years (oops)
I want cams to see through cloths
I want cams to see ghosts

Is this too much to ask for?

Disclaimer: not intended for the ironically challenged. :-)

Chris Hurd · October 21st, 2003, 10:43 PM

Now all you need is an editing system that does the editing for you. With limitless storage, of course.

;-)

Dylan Couper · October 21st, 2003, 10:46 PM

Sony filled your second last quota a few years back when they put out that Nightshot model that could see through certain types of clothing with the right filter. The "feature" was "fixed" quickly. I don't know too much more about them, except all the peeping tom/upskirt type porno sites bought them all up.

Frank Granovski · October 21st, 2003, 10:54 PM

I think that was the Sony PC5. A friend of mine owns one, I should ask him about it. :)

Ted Springer · October 21st, 2003, 11:04 PM

Dudeness, just about any camera can videotape ghosts! If you can see 'em you can videotape 'em.

I agree that the current offerings of 100X + zoom is simply not enough. Shouldn't you be able to have actors in Japan performing a scene while you are videotaping them from California? It's only reasonable. I want optical zoom up to 32,768X and then digital zoom all the way so a single pixel fills the entire screen, but still looks natural. You forgot to mention image stabilization. It should be rock steady at maximum zoom even if handheld while riding a horse.

I'm not sure what you mean by "side loaders", but I'd like to see a slot loading camera that accepts tapes the same way VCRs do. The tape also needs to last at least 8 hours (per tape). There should also be a built in DVD player and surround system in case you get bored, and also double as a cell phone.

Lastly you forgot to mention the price. It should be no more than $250 MSRP. Not sure how that translates into Canadian money... probably 80 pesos or so.

By the way, what do you mean by "cheeks"? Is that some sort of Canadian thing?

Frank Granovski · October 21st, 2003, 11:11 PM

Quote:

By the way, what do you mean by "cheeks"? Is that some sort of Canadian thing?

It's cheeky slang that I made up so I don't get kicked off the boards. :)

Alex Taylor · October 21st, 2003, 11:38 PM

I personally don't know why MiniDV tape is so popular, it won't stick to anything. I actually went out to the dollar store and bought some really cheap tape and that worked great. Fuji really needs to get their act together on the adhesive front.

Frank Granovski · October 22nd, 2003, 03:33 AM

I had the same problem with the "dry" Fuji miniDV tape, but then I discovered the "wet" cheap stuff, it stuck just fine.

Another neat feature for miniDV cams would be a laser light, to help quide the cam to the subject you are shooting. It would be especially useful in war zones. :)

-----------------------------------------------------
One man's junk is another man's treasure; so give me your junk. :)

Gints Klimanis · October 22nd, 2003, 04:00 AM

I want cams that record a choice of formats (DV25, DV50, DV100++whatever, MPEG2, MPEG4 ) to FlashCard or microdrive, with more than one card running in parallel. I want the next generation of CF cards to be here now, with double or quad wide data paths. This is the path to reduce the Capture stage significantly. Record to CF *and* optionally record to tape at the ssame time. Capture from the CF would reduce the capture stage.

I want cams that store scene index info for several miniDV cassettes, including the start and end images.

I want cams with progressive output so I can get the best view on the big screen TV after my event. Or, I want TVs that convert Firewire or whatever output to their native format.

I want cams that actually record all four audio inputs simultaneously in the 12-bit/h3 KHz audio mode, if need be with USB2 or Firewire for audio input from an external multiplexer.

I want cams with nice histograms for exposure control , and even some automatic exposure and color balance functions.

I want cams with digital hum remover notch filters.
I want cams that show a real-time audio frequency response and help identify hums with 1 Hz resolution and notch them all out before recording to tape.

Steve Nunez · October 22nd, 2003, 07:44 AM

I'd settle for a 16:9 high def camcorder with 20+ optical zoom (the more the better) that allows for NL editing and exporting back out to HD on the miniDV tape....3CCD of course (add-on lenses a plus)

...anyone listening???

Sounds simple but I bet no one nails these features with the newer models coming out!

Michael Westphal · October 22nd, 2003, 09:03 PM

HD is good, but I'd prefer a stock wide-angle lens ( Like 20mm in 35mm terms). BUT no tape, please. It's time to go ALL Digital: flash, harddrive, static RAM, whatever (Gints' right) (I'm tired of tape dropouts, dirty heads, wet heads, etc.). Oh, and might as well ask for highspeed wireless connections to the NLE.
OH, and full manual control with manual zoom and focus like on a 35mm SLR.
(And everything that everyone else asked for.)

Dylan Couper · October 23rd, 2003, 02:10 AM

I want my choice of colours and two extra sized cupholders.

Will Fastie · October 23rd, 2003, 07:41 AM

I want a cam with an attached seat. In addition to providing for the comfort and safety of the operator, it would eliminate the need for all those expensive steadi-things.

I'm also thinking built-in CD player so I can listen to my favorite music while filming.

Will

Zac Stein · October 23rd, 2003, 08:21 AM

I want a camera that lactates for those thirsty shoots...

Zac

Michael Wisniewski · October 23rd, 2003, 02:52 PM

Let's add a satellite dish too so we can watch our favorite shows while we're shooting - oh and of course picture-in-picture for the LCD.

Oh and let's put in a microwave too so we can make popcorn.

October 21st, 2003, 10:01 PM	#1
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	What's wrong? I'll tell you what's wrong! What's wrong? I'll tell you what's wrong! All those soft cam bags don't have enough padding. Even worse, they're not water proof. Good tripods are expensive. Good filters are impossible to get in those small thread sizes. Oh, and good filters are expensive too. MiniDV tapes are not created equally, and you can't mix the damn things unless you want screwed-up heads. WHAT?? You already know all this and you want me to get to the beef? Okay, you asked for it. :) Cams. Yes, what all miniDV dreams (and nightmares) are about. The cam: the mighty tool which brings us fame as film makers, recognition, cheeks, and much much more, like something to bitch about. Some folk need a cam for shooting fine deep shadows and dork blacks, other folk need a cam for shooting sneaky stuff like spying on people (while little ol' me just need a cam to catch someone at their worst, or best). It's just too bad, I think, that I hate most of the new cams and I already have cheeks. Furthermore, I don't give a damn about recognition and I don't have dreams. Well, maybe that's not quite right. I do have one or two each night---I dream about cheeks; I dream about falling off a cliff; I dream about dead people that I used to know when they were not dead. (Brains.... More brains---kinda like watching the same scary re-runs every day on my 20 inch 4:3 Emerson color TV with the built-in VCR which I got for free when I bought the new furniture about 7 months ago at a real good deal. :):):) Why do I hate new cams? Okay, I'll tell you. Cams can't do a number of things, and I want them to do these things before I can get to like them. Here's my beef list: I want cams to shoot in low light, very low light I want the manual controls and auto too I want better audio, a lot better Side loaders, please More zoom, please Silent running cams, and no zoom noise I want atomic batteries good for at least 69 years (oops) I want cams to see through cloths I want cams to see ghosts Is this too much to ask for? Disclaimer: not intended for the ironically challenged. :-)

October 21st, 2003, 10:43 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Now all you need is an editing system that does the editing for you. With limitless storage, of course. ;-) __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 21st, 2003, 10:46 PM	#3
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Sony filled your second last quota a few years back when they put out that Nightshot model that could see through certain types of clothing with the right filter. The "feature" was "fixed" quickly. I don't know too much more about them, except all the peeping tom/upskirt type porno sites bought them all up. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

October 21st, 2003, 11:38 PM	#7
Alex Taylor Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 390	I personally don't know why MiniDV tape is so popular, it won't stick to anything. I actually went out to the dollar store and bought some really cheap tape and that worked great. Fuji really needs to get their act together on the adhesive front. __________________ alextaylor.org

October 22nd, 2003, 07:44 AM	#10
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	I'd settle for a 16:9 high def camcorder with 20+ optical zoom (the more the better) that allows for NL editing and exporting back out to HD on the miniDV tape....3CCD of course (add-on lenses a plus) ...anyone listening??? Sounds simple but I bet no one nails these features with the newer models coming out! __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

October 21st, 2003, 10:54 PM	#4
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I think that was the Sony PC5. A friend of mine owns one, I should ask him about it. :)

October 21st, 2003, 11:04 PM	#5
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	Dudeness, just about any camera can videotape ghosts! If you can see 'em you can videotape 'em. I agree that the current offerings of 100X + zoom is simply not enough. Shouldn't you be able to have actors in Japan performing a scene while you are videotaping them from California? It's only reasonable. I want optical zoom up to 32,768X and then digital zoom all the way so a single pixel fills the entire screen, but still looks natural. You forgot to mention image stabilization. It should be rock steady at maximum zoom even if handheld while riding a horse. I'm not sure what you mean by "side loaders", but I'd like to see a slot loading camera that accepts tapes the same way VCRs do. The tape also needs to last at least 8 hours (per tape). There should also be a built in DVD player and surround system in case you get bored, and also double as a cell phone. Lastly you forgot to mention the price. It should be no more than $250 MSRP. Not sure how that translates into Canadian money... probably 80 pesos or so. By the way, what do you mean by "cheeks"? Is that some sort of Canadian thing?

October 22nd, 2003, 03:33 AM	#8
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I had the same problem with the "dry" Fuji miniDV tape, but then I discovered the "wet" cheap stuff, it stuck just fine. Another neat feature for miniDV cams would be a laser light, to help quide the cam to the subject you are shooting. It would be especially useful in war zones. :) ----------------------------------------------------- One man's junk is another man's treasure; so give me your junk. :)

October 22nd, 2003, 04:00 AM	#9
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	I want cams that record a choice of formats (DV25, DV50, DV100++whatever, MPEG2, MPEG4 ) to FlashCard or microdrive, with more than one card running in parallel. I want the next generation of CF cards to be here now, with double or quad wide data paths. This is the path to reduce the Capture stage significantly. Record to CF and optionally record to tape at the ssame time. Capture from the CF would reduce the capture stage. I want cams that store scene index info for several miniDV cassettes, including the start and end images. I want cams with progressive output so I can get the best view on the big screen TV after my event. Or, I want TVs that convert Firewire or whatever output to their native format. I want cams that actually record all four audio inputs simultaneously in the 12-bit/h3 KHz audio mode, if need be with USB2 or Firewire for audio input from an external multiplexer. I want cams with nice histograms for exposure control , and even some automatic exposure and color balance functions. I want cams with digital hum remover notch filters. I want cams that show a real-time audio frequency response and help identify hums with 1 Hz resolution and notch them all out before recording to tape.

October 22nd, 2003, 09:03 PM	#11
Michael Westphal Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 166	HD is good, but I'd prefer a stock wide-angle lens ( Like 20mm in 35mm terms). BUT no tape, please. It's time to go ALL Digital: flash, harddrive, static RAM, whatever (Gints' right) (I'm tired of tape dropouts, dirty heads, wet heads, etc.). Oh, and might as well ask for highspeed wireless connections to the NLE. OH, and full manual control with manual zoom and focus like on a 35mm SLR. (And everything that everyone else asked for.) __________________ Michael A Westphal

October 23rd, 2003, 02:10 AM	#12
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	I want my choice of colours and two extra sized cupholders. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

October 23rd, 2003, 07:41 AM	#13
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	I want a cam with an attached seat. In addition to providing for the comfort and safety of the operator, it would eliminate the need for all those expensive steadi-things. I'm also thinking built-in CD player so I can listen to my favorite music while filming. Will

October 23rd, 2003, 08:21 AM	#14
Zac Stein Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 730	I want a camera that lactates for those thirsty shoots... Zac

October 23rd, 2003, 02:52 PM	#15
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Let's add a satellite dish too so we can watch our favorite shows while we're shooting - oh and of course picture-in-picture for the LCD. Oh and let's put in a microwave too so we can make popcorn. __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese