Meaning of professional at DVinfo.net

Frank Granovski · November 27th, 2003, 06:40 AM

Professional:[list=1][*]engaged in an activity as a means of livelihood or for gain[*]of, connected with, or engaged in a profession[*]a person who belongs to one of the professions, as law[*]a person who earns his or her living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs[*]a person who is expert at his or her work[/list=1]From, The Random House Dictionary

I would assume then that going with "Number 1," a professional cam is cam that can be used for an activity (shooting) for livelihood or for gain. That would make my 5 year old JVC 1-chip, GR-DVL9500 cams, my friend's TRV720, Yow's MX350 and Terrence's MX300, professional cams. And I'm sure the list goes on. (Just to clear up the over use and confusion about the meaning of the word, "professional," and the term, "professional cam.") So if you shoot with a Canon ZR20, and have the footage dumped to a VHS tape, or transfered to 35mm motion film, and this activity is your means of livelihood or for gain, then the Canon ZR20 is a professional camcorder! :-)

Adrian Douglas · November 27th, 2003, 08:33 AM

Professional...the new extreme. Can't wait to see the new Gillete Triple Blade Professional.

Peter Jefferson · November 27th, 2003, 09:49 AM

its not what you use its HOW you use it ;)

Rob Belics · November 27th, 2003, 10:16 AM

No. A professional using a piece of equipment does not necessarily make the equipment professional. If a professional wouldn't normally use such equipment, then it's not a professional piece of gear.

Patricia Kim · November 27th, 2003, 03:16 PM

It's a question that will come up more often as the technology evolves. A GS100k in my hands is definitely not a professional piece of equipment. But at a recent event for an organization to which I belong, one of my acquaintances, who is both an author and documentary maker, was very interested in my cam - for professional purposes. If he were to buy one and use it in his work, I wonder if people would express surprise that he used such an "unprofessional" camcorder or just express surprise over how small professional equipment is these days.

Rob Belics · November 27th, 2003, 04:30 PM

I would say, "Look what that professional did with that unprofessional equipment." Hi8 didn't become professional standard motion picture equipment for theatrical production just because it was used in Blair Witch.

Hmm. But that doesn't mean an Arri16 isn't professional if it is used for theatre.

Watercolors are used by kindergardners but also professional artists. But their watercolors are much higher quality.

Therefore, there much be a correlation between the quality level of the output vs the quality of the product. Possibly a correlation in the difficulty in producing that output.

If a professional manages to create a 35mm theatrical release from a VHS camera, that doesn't make the camera professional. Change that to a CineAlta camera, the quality goes up but so does the difficulty.

And what if there is no spoon? Why do you continue to persevere, love and strive when in the end you will only die?

James Emory · November 27th, 2003, 04:40 PM

Frank, what have you done?

Frank Granovski · November 27th, 2003, 06:00 PM

"Frank, what have you done?"

Just quoted the dictionary. :-)

Patricia Kim · November 27th, 2003, 06:05 PM

Equipment can't replace vision and talent. No question there. A CineAlta in my hands would not make me a professional. But many with talent who could not realize their vision before because of the equipment issue can now do so because of the changes in technology - and drops in price point. It seems possible that at some point it will not be very clear what is professional and what isn't. There may still be distinctions made re what is costly or more difficult (though possibly the right word is "flexible" or "enabling") to operate, and I think there will always be distinctions about whether there is talent - and to what degree - behind the end product, but the distinctions about the equipment somehow substantiating one's claim to being a professional may very much blur.

Frank Granovski · November 27th, 2003, 07:24 PM

A "CineAlta" is perhaps considered more "professional" than a PV-DV953 or GS100 because it costs more and is meant for different uses than say shooting "professional" instructional videos with a PV-DV953 or GS100 (for livelihood or for gain). :-)

Frank Granovski · November 27th, 2003, 09:53 PM

One must look logically at this. :-)

If a cam is used professionally, then it must be a professional cam.

If a police officer uses a horse instead of a car, he is still a police officer.

If a $50 tripod is used professionally, it must therefore be a professional tripod.

Now for the flip side of the coin. :-)

A shooter with a $20,000 professional cam who doesn't use it for livelihood or for gain, must not be a professional then. However, does this mean that a professional cam is really not a professional cam if it is not used for livelihood or for gain? Perhaps someone can answer this. Chris?

Michael Wisniewski · November 27th, 2003, 09:56 PM

Here's another quotation/definition I like:
"A professional is an amateur who didn¡¯t quit" - Richard Bach

... of course you can also argue that a professional knows when to quit ...

Adrian Douglas · November 27th, 2003, 10:24 PM

A true professional wouldn't waste time speculating on the word professional, they would just get out there and shoot and leave the speculating to the amateurs.

Rob Belics · November 28th, 2003, 12:27 AM

I was trying to find a way to say that.

Frank Granovski · November 28th, 2003, 12:33 AM

I posted that because the word "professional" is being over-used/misunderstood in the MX Forum. Perhaps I should have attached Bill Pryor's disclaimer at the end of the post. :-)

November 27th, 2003, 06:40 AM	#1
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Meaning of professional Professional:[list=1][]engaged in an activity as a means of livelihood or for gain[]of, connected with, or engaged in a profession[]a person who belongs to one of the professions, as law[]a person who earns his or her living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs[]a person who is expert at his or her work[/list=1]From, The Random House Dictionary I would assume then that going with "Number 1," a professional cam is cam that can be used for an activity (shooting) for livelihood or for gain. That would make my 5 year old JVC 1-chip, GR-DVL9500 cams, my friend's TRV720, Yow's MX350 and Terrence's MX300, professional cams. And I'm sure the list goes on. (Just to clear up the over use and confusion about the meaning of the word, "professional," and the term, "professional cam.") So if you shoot with a Canon ZR20, and have the footage dumped to a VHS tape, or transfered to 35mm motion film, and this activity is your means of livelihood or for gain, then the Canon ZR20 is a professional camcorder!* :-)

November 27th, 2003, 08:33 AM	#2
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Professional...the new extreme. Can't wait to see the new Gillete Triple Blade Professional. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

November 27th, 2003, 04:40 PM	#7
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	??? Frank, what have you done?

November 27th, 2003, 10:24 PM	#13
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	A true professional wouldn't waste time speculating on the word professional, they would just get out there and shoot and leave the speculating to the amateurs. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

November 27th, 2003, 09:49 AM	#3
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	its not what you use its HOW you use it ;)

November 27th, 2003, 10:16 AM	#4
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	No. A professional using a piece of equipment does not necessarily make the equipment professional. If a professional wouldn't normally use such equipment, then it's not a professional piece of gear.

November 27th, 2003, 03:16 PM	#5
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	It's a question that will come up more often as the technology evolves. A GS100k in my hands is definitely not a professional piece of equipment. But at a recent event for an organization to which I belong, one of my acquaintances, who is both an author and documentary maker, was very interested in my cam - for professional purposes. If he were to buy one and use it in his work, I wonder if people would express surprise that he used such an "unprofessional" camcorder or just express surprise over how small professional equipment is these days.

November 27th, 2003, 04:30 PM	#6
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	I would say, "Look what that professional did with that unprofessional equipment." Hi8 didn't become professional standard motion picture equipment for theatrical production just because it was used in Blair Witch. Hmm. But that doesn't mean an Arri16 isn't professional if it is used for theatre. Watercolors are used by kindergardners but also professional artists. But their watercolors are much higher quality. Therefore, there much be a correlation between the quality level of the output vs the quality of the product. Possibly a correlation in the difficulty in producing that output. If a professional manages to create a 35mm theatrical release from a VHS camera, that doesn't make the camera professional. Change that to a CineAlta camera, the quality goes up but so does the difficulty. And what if there is no spoon? Why do you continue to persevere, love and strive when in the end you will only die?

November 27th, 2003, 06:00 PM	#8
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	"Frank, what have you done?" Just quoted the dictionary. :-)

November 27th, 2003, 06:05 PM	#9
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	Equipment can't replace vision and talent. No question there. A CineAlta in my hands would not make me a professional. But many with talent who could not realize their vision before because of the equipment issue can now do so because of the changes in technology - and drops in price point. It seems possible that at some point it will not be very clear what is professional and what isn't. There may still be distinctions made re what is costly or more difficult (though possibly the right word is "flexible" or "enabling") to operate, and I think there will always be distinctions about whether there is talent - and to what degree - behind the end product, but the distinctions about the equipment somehow substantiating one's claim to being a professional may very much blur.

November 27th, 2003, 07:24 PM	#10
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	A "CineAlta" is perhaps considered more "professional" than a PV-DV953 or GS100 because it costs more and is meant for different uses than say shooting "professional" instructional videos with a PV-DV953 or GS100 (for livelihood or for gain). :-)

November 27th, 2003, 09:53 PM	#11
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	One must look logically at this. :-) If a cam is used professionally, then it must be a professional cam. If a police officer uses a horse instead of a car, he is still a police officer. If a $50 tripod is used professionally, it must therefore be a professional tripod. Now for the flip side of the coin. :-) A shooter with a $20,000 professional cam who doesn't use it for livelihood or for gain, must not be a professional then. However, does this mean that a professional cam is really not a professional cam if it is not used for livelihood or for gain? Perhaps someone can answer this. Chris?

November 27th, 2003, 09:56 PM	#12
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Here's another quotation/definition I like: "A professional is an amateur who didn¡¯t quit" - Richard Bach ... of course you can also argue that a professional knows when to quit ...

November 28th, 2003, 12:27 AM	#14
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	I was trying to find a way to say that.

November 28th, 2003, 12:33 AM	#15
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I posted that because the word "professional" is being over-used/misunderstood in the MX Forum. Perhaps I should have attached Bill Pryor's disclaimer at the end of the post. :-)