Go Figure- Prepare for short ranting at DVinfo.net

K. Forman · January 22nd, 2004, 08:53 PM

Ok... As a small time video guy, I have to work my butt off to make anything. Occasionally, I need an extra camera man or whatever.

As an example, I hired a production assistant yesterday, to help with pre production, and the regular production. Since I am holding auditions tomorrow and Saturday, I asked if he could be there. "No problem", says he. I am not paying up front, but with a percentage of sales. "No problem", says he. Tonight, I get an email saying he "can't do it, sorry."

Two years ago, I took this plunge, and went into business for myself, and was supposed to have a semi-experienced videographer doing this with me. 3 hours before our first big event, I get a call, "I can't make it, my kid has a cold, and my parents are in town."

Ain't it a bitch?

Dylan Couper · January 22nd, 2004, 09:26 PM

I totally sympathize.

The worst one for me was two actors telling me they could only work until 10am on the day of the shoot, the night before the shoot.
Apparently they wanted to go audition for a bad TV show.

Nicholi Brossia · January 22nd, 2004, 10:12 PM

I planned to start my own business in July 2003, so I started talking to "clients" early last year and gave them detailed rundowns of when I would have all the equipment and ready to get their jobs done. "We've got everything together and we're just waiting on you." I was told on numerous occasions. After actually arriving ahead of schedule, confirming the projects, and quitting my job, they dropped out/postponed indefinately.

John Hudson · January 22nd, 2004, 11:08 PM

Gotta check those references (employment as well as professional) to minimze this kind of irresponsibilty from happening.

Tough luck. You'll pull through.

Ken Tanaka · January 22nd, 2004, 11:28 PM

Very discouraging events.

Finding, attracting, retaining and motivating good people is the biggest core challenge of any business, large or small. (Your former employer might well have lamented your departure, graceful though it may have been.)

A former boss had a good slogan: "The greatest ability you can have is reliABILITY." And who was it that said, "Half of success in life is just showing up."?

My only advice, as someone who has experienced such disappointments more than a few times, would be to avoid letting such an experience harden you in your treatment of people. Treat people fairly and honestly, but use this as a lesson brick in the learning wall of your business life.

Rob Belics · January 22nd, 2004, 11:34 PM

Ah, the difference between pros and amateurs. I'd dump them all and never use them again.

Some people see opportunity and some just want to pretend. At the feature we completed last summer we had 250 extras of which about 50 were professional actors, interns, film school students and grads, etc. The second day of filming only 125 showed up but all the pros were there for each day. Even some of the unpaid or low paid intern PAs put in 20 hour days but were there for each of them.

Michael Gibbons · January 23rd, 2004, 10:49 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics :
Some people see opportunity and some just want to pretend.

I think this is pretty much dead on, but I think there is something more to it as well.
Now for some more ranting:
This is some perspective gained over ten years of experiance in another branch of the entertainment world, fiction writing, but I think it applies equally to filmmaking/videography.

For most people artsitic/ creative endevors are strange and mysterious things that take place outside the realm of their perception. They have a difficult time believing that people make movies, write novels, paint masterpieces...ect. It just seems unreal. They are incapable of understanding that guys like Hithcock and Tarentino come from the general population. When confronted with the opportunity to be a part of something creative, this inability to believe in the extraordinary can easily be coupled with an intense fear of failure.
It takes real guts and a pretty generous amount of hubris to dream the Big Dreams, even for people with skill and aptitude.

Ambition can be a real pain in the !@$$#. Especially when you accept the fact that try as you might, you may never get to the summit. Another night on the couch with a sixer and the game- now that's an obtainable goal.

The ground hog always casts a shadow, but he doesn't always let it frieghten him back into his hole.
Michael

"If you're not failing you're not trying hard enough."
-Woody Allen

Federico Dib · January 23rd, 2004, 11:23 AM

Hey Michael I agree with you...
"Another night on the couch with a sixer and the game- now that's an obtainable goal."

I see and know so many people like this.. and I wonder if I wouldn´t be happier if I was like that... But in my case is not a choice, I just can´t help myself.

But then I also read somewhere something like that achieving the Big Dream is not the important thing, but that when you are old and tired... if you look back you see you never stopped trying for it and that you are happy with the road you chose.

I´ve allways liked that saying that goes like: don´t regret what you´ve done.. but what you didn´t do.

Hey, we should have PHILOSOPHY forum.

Michael Gibbons · January 23rd, 2004, 11:52 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Federico Dib : Hey Michael I agree with you...

I see and know so many people like this.. and I wonder if I wouldn´t be happier if I was like that... But in my case is not a choice, I just can´t help myself.

But then I also read somewhere something like that achieving the Big Dream is not the important thing, but that when you are old and tired... if you look back you see you never stopped trying for it and that you are happy with the road you chose.

Fredrico,
I'm right there with you man. When I was young I had discipline, I turned my back on it for a little while and it transformed into compulsion. I can't ever quit, it's like a disease. Sometimes, I want to sit on the couch and watch TV forever, but I can't. How can anyone, given the chance, as we all are, fail to jump into the fray and take their measure against it? Get in there, get bloodied up, take a break if you must, and then get back in there! I derive a good deal of satisfaction from the struggle, and knowing that I have not let the days of my life slip past me in a steady, numbing blur.
My personal mantra:
No surrender, no defeat.

Sorry for rambling so much. I'll shut up now.
Michael

Philip Boyer · January 23rd, 2004, 12:45 PM

Frederico,

I don't know if this is the exact quote you meant, but it's one of my favorites.

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." -- Mark Twain

And while we're tossing out inspirational quotes, here's another. "There are always two choices. Two paths to take. One is easy. And its only reward is that it's easy." -- Unknown

Rob Belics · January 23rd, 2004, 02:02 PM

Sometimes, though, you run into that quote about on their death bed no one wishes they spent more time at the office.

I think the solution to that thought is one my wife got from one of her bosses: "Gamble while your young." At the time I only thought it was good advice because you have years to recover and don't have a fortune to throw away to begin with. Now I think that if you gamble and succeed, you don't need to spend as much time at the office when your older.

John Hudson · January 23rd, 2004, 02:14 PM

Well put.

I have started my own start-up company (Not related to film)

My wife has just started her own start-up company (Optical)

In my spare time I'm doing everything I can to finally, once and for all become a filmaker.

I am paying close attention to my 4 year old son (my best lil friend)

I am trying to stay active (bball, weights)

Funny, my plate is fuller than ever, I am going in a hundred directions and I have more energy than ever and more focus. WEIRD as oppossed to the many years I spent just working for someone lese, not pursuing my dream that is film. :)

January 22nd, 2004, 08:53 PM	#1
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Go Figure- Prepare for short ranting Ok... As a small time video guy, I have to work my butt off to make anything. Occasionally, I need an extra camera man or whatever. As an example, I hired a production assistant yesterday, to help with pre production, and the regular production. Since I am holding auditions tomorrow and Saturday, I asked if he could be there. "No problem", says he. I am not paying up front, but with a percentage of sales. "No problem", says he. Tonight, I get an email saying he "can't do it, sorry." Two years ago, I took this plunge, and went into business for myself, and was supposed to have a semi-experienced videographer doing this with me. 3 hours before our first big event, I get a call, "I can't make it, my kid has a cold, and my parents are in town." Ain't it a bitch?

January 22nd, 2004, 09:26 PM	#2
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	I totally sympathize. The worst one for me was two actors telling me they could only work until 10am on the day of the shoot, the night before the shoot. Apparently they wanted to go audition for a bad TV show. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

January 22nd, 2004, 10:12 PM	#3
Nicholi Brossia Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 389	I planned to start my own business in July 2003, so I started talking to "clients" early last year and gave them detailed rundowns of when I would have all the equipment and ready to get their jobs done. "We've got everything together and we're just waiting on you." I was told on numerous occasions. After actually arriving ahead of schedule, confirming the projects, and quitting my job, they dropped out/postponed indefinately. __________________ Nicholi Brossia

January 22nd, 2004, 11:28 PM	#5
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Very discouraging events. Finding, attracting, retaining and motivating good people is the biggest core challenge of any business, large or small. (Your former employer might well have lamented your departure, graceful though it may have been.) A former boss had a good slogan: "The greatest ability you can have is reliABILITY." And who was it that said, "Half of success in life is just showing up."? My only advice, as someone who has experienced such disappointments more than a few times, would be to avoid letting such an experience harden you in your treatment of people. Treat people fairly and honestly, but use this as a lesson brick in the learning wall of your business life. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

January 23rd, 2004, 10:49 AM	#7
Michael Gibbons Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Loveland, Colorado, USA Posts: 292	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics : Some people see opportunity and some just want to pretend. I think this is pretty much dead on, but I think there is something more to it as well. Now for some more ranting: This is some perspective gained over ten years of experiance in another branch of the entertainment world, fiction writing, but I think it applies equally to filmmaking/videography. For most people artsitic/ creative endevors are strange and mysterious things that take place outside the realm of their perception. They have a difficult time believing that people make movies, write novels, paint masterpieces...ect. It just seems unreal. They are incapable of understanding that guys like Hithcock and Tarentino come from the general population. When confronted with the opportunity to be a part of something creative, this inability to believe in the extraordinary can easily be coupled with an intense fear of failure. It takes real guts and a pretty generous amount of hubris to dream the Big Dreams, even for people with skill and aptitude. Ambition can be a real pain in the !@$$#. Especially when you accept the fact that try as you might, you may never get to the summit. Another night on the couch with a sixer and the game- now that's an obtainable goal. The ground hog always casts a shadow, but he doesn't always let it frieghten him back into his hole. Michael "If you're not failing you're not trying hard enough." -Woody Allen __________________ " When some wild-eyed, eight foot tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head against a bar room wall, and looks you crooked in the eye, and he asks you if you've payed your dues, well, you just stare that big suker right back in the eye, and you remember what old Jack Burton always says at a time like that, 'Have you paid your dues, Jack? Yes sir, the check is in the mail."

January 22nd, 2004, 11:08 PM	#4
John Hudson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: 32° 44' N 117° 10' W Posts: 820	Gotta check those references (employment as well as professional) to minimze this kind of irresponsibilty from happening. Tough luck. You'll pull through.

January 22nd, 2004, 11:34 PM	#6
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	Ah, the difference between pros and amateurs. I'd dump them all and never use them again. Some people see opportunity and some just want to pretend. At the feature we completed last summer we had 250 extras of which about 50 were professional actors, interns, film school students and grads, etc. The second day of filming only 125 showed up but all the pros were there for each day. Even some of the unpaid or low paid intern PAs put in 20 hour days but were there for each of them.

January 23rd, 2004, 11:23 AM	#8
Federico Dib Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Barcelona Posts: 312	Hey Michael I agree with you... "Another night on the couch with a sixer and the game- now that's an obtainable goal." I see and know so many people like this.. and I wonder if I wouldn´t be happier if I was like that... But in my case is not a choice, I just can´t help myself. But then I also read somewhere something like that achieving the Big Dream is not the important thing, but that when you are old and tired... if you look back you see you never stopped trying for it and that you are happy with the road you chose. I´ve allways liked that saying that goes like: don´t regret what you´ve done.. but what you didn´t do. Hey, we should have PHILOSOPHY forum. __________________ Messenger Boy : The Thessalonian you're fighting, he's the biggest man I've ever seen. I wouldn't want to fight him. Achilles : That is why no one will remember your name.

January 23rd, 2004, 11:52 AM	#9
Michael Gibbons Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Loveland, Colorado, USA Posts: 292	<<<-- Originally posted by Federico Dib : Hey Michael I agree with you... I see and know so many people like this.. and I wonder if I wouldn´t be happier if I was like that... But in my case is not a choice, I just can´t help myself. But then I also read somewhere something like that achieving the Big Dream is not the important thing, but that when you are old and tired... if you look back you see you never stopped trying for it and that you are happy with the road you chose. Fredrico, I'm right there with you man. When I was young I had discipline, I turned my back on it for a little while and it transformed into compulsion. I can't ever quit, it's like a disease. Sometimes, I want to sit on the couch and watch TV forever, but I can't. How can anyone, given the chance, as we all are, fail to jump into the fray and take their measure against it? Get in there, get bloodied up, take a break if you must, and then get back in there! I derive a good deal of satisfaction from the struggle, and knowing that I have not let the days of my life slip past me in a steady, numbing blur. My personal mantra: No surrender, no defeat. Sorry for rambling so much. I'll shut up now. Michael __________________ " When some wild-eyed, eight foot tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head against a bar room wall, and looks you crooked in the eye, and he asks you if you've payed your dues, well, you just stare that big suker right back in the eye, and you remember what old Jack Burton always says at a time like that, 'Have you paid your dues, Jack? Yes sir, the check is in the mail."

January 23rd, 2004, 12:45 PM	#10
Philip Boyer Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Carrollton, Texas Posts: 141	Frederico, I don't know if this is the exact quote you meant, but it's one of my favorites. "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." -- Mark Twain And while we're tossing out inspirational quotes, here's another. "There are always two choices. Two paths to take. One is easy. And its only reward is that it's easy." -- Unknown __________________ Philip Boyer

January 23rd, 2004, 02:02 PM	#11
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	Sometimes, though, you run into that quote about on their death bed no one wishes they spent more time at the office. I think the solution to that thought is one my wife got from one of her bosses: "Gamble while your young." At the time I only thought it was good advice because you have years to recover and don't have a fortune to throw away to begin with. Now I think that if you gamble and succeed, you don't need to spend as much time at the office when your older.

January 23rd, 2004, 02:14 PM	#12
John Hudson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: 32° 44' N 117° 10' W Posts: 820	Well put. I have started my own start-up company (Not related to film) My wife has just started her own start-up company (Optical) In my spare time I'm doing everything I can to finally, once and for all become a filmaker. I am paying close attention to my 4 year old son (my best lil friend) I am trying to stay active (bball, weights) Funny, my plate is fuller than ever, I am going in a hundred directions and I have more energy than ever and more focus. WEIRD as oppossed to the many years I spent just working for someone lese, not pursuing my dream that is film. :)